How Do You Drink Your Coffee - Follow Up

I wonder how much taste preference is learned, versus inherited. I mentioned before that I started drinking black coffee without sugar at about 12 or 13. But before that I used to go with my dad to the KofC and watched TV while he went bowling. There was an older guy there who would tutor the kids waiting for their dad’s when he was free, math drills and such. He was usually tutoring older kids, that these days, would be considered “at risk”.

If we were not too obnoxious and knew our numbers, the treat was a bottle from the Coke machine. He was an old boxer, and the only person I ever met with a cauliflower ear. The general impression he gave was that he was a tough old guy, very patient, and someone you did not want upset with you. He always drank Moxie. I asked my dad about it and he said “it’s nasty stuff.” One night after our lesson I told him I wanted a bottle of Moxie, not the Coke that my 7 to 10 year old friends were drinking.

Now if you did not grow up in New England, you have probably heard of it, but never tasted it. It was and still is flavored with gentian root, and is very bitter. For someone my age, used to Coke, root beer, and cream soda, incredibly bitter. The first mouthful was a bit of a shock. The old guy was was watching me to see my reaction. I was determined to show him that I was a tough guy too, and was going to finish it. The surprising thing was that once I got over the initial shock I loved it. He just grinned.

Years later, when I graduated to beer, I was always looking for the bitterest ones I could find. Even later, when I brewed my own, I hopped the hell out of it.

I still like extremely bitter beer, but for a while the newer really bitter hops that a lot of the brewers were using had, at least to me, a metallic taste I really disliked. That seems to be going away, or maybe it’s me.

I have always liked highly favored food and drink. My mother, rest her soul, was a terrible cook. Spices were salt and pepper on the table. I had to learn to cook for myself, and tend towards curry, chili, and such. Having a friend and neighbor from India has been a revelation for what food can taste like. I’ll ask him about a recipe and tell him it seemed bland. “Double or triple the spices” is his usual answer. And it works for me.

As for wine, my favorites are the more intense the better. A good Petite Verdot I love. A cab or zin that has character is wonderful. I enjoy a good chard on a hot Georgia day, but a SB with a touch of bitter is heaven if I’m drinking white wine. I will drink a rose, but again, most are too sweet tasting, even those that are dry, unless I wait for them to warm up a bit.

On the other hand, I’ve been trying to enjoy the more subtle aspects of wine. What I find myself looking for is something different and expressive.

I really dislike Gewurztraminer and Riesling. Even the ones that are supposedly dry are too sweet for me.

I suspect that I’m very low on the taste spectrum. What you grow up eating and drinking is a part of it, what you can or can’t taste is too. My wife has said at different times over the years we’ve been married is that I’m “bitter blind” or that all the hot peppers I eat have burned out my taste buds. Maybe she’s right, but it works for me.

Interesting take (and story) in general.

The Riesling opinion though, to me, is a shocking statement. If anything, IMO many trocken Rieslings are too dry. Some of them are analytically at less than a 1 g/L of sugar (that’s considerably less than many Zins), a few have zero. Meaning there is basically nothing I can think of for your tongue to perceive as sweet, let alone too sweet. Wow

‘Sweet’ is a relative term when it comes to wine. One person’s dry is one person’s sweet. A person who finds a no-dosage Champagne to their liking will probably find Brut a touch sweet to them; others find it incredibly dry.
. . .

Yes, that too.

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Very intresting thread.

I also kinda hope it gets buried in the deepweb, never to resurface.

Otherwise we might see hordes of your average baisc wine drinker constantly blabbering about how lucky they are to be able to drink cheap 3 $ wines that are better than expensive stuff because they made a test and they’re now super/uber/duper tasters :clown_face:

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Guillermo kindly sent me some of the test strips he bought. Between being busy, and having some days of feeling like I was a little stuffed-up, I didn’t get around to trying them until this evening.

I did do this test blind. Here were my results:

Strip 1. Strongly suspect this is the control. Tastes like nothing/paper. Maybe something very slightly salty, if I try to talk myself into finding something there that really isn’t there. Sodium Benzoate

Strip 2. This one also tastes like nothing. Really really nothing. Control

Strip 3. Tastes sulfury/gun powdery. Not terribly strong, but obvious. Thiourea

Strip 4. Tastes like nothing. PTC (Phenylthiourea)

According to the instructions/guide that came with the strips, because I could not taste the PTC strip I am not a supertaster.

A “normal taster” is indicated by “Cannot determine the difference between substances or assumes control paper is something else.” That does not seem to apply to me.

A "recessive supertaster is indicated by “Can taste everything but Sodium Benzoate”. That does not apply to me.

A “dominant supertaster” is indicated by “Can taste Sodium Benzoate, Thiourea, and PTC.” I could not taste PTC, therefore this does not apply to me.

A “standard supertaster” is indicated by “Can taste PTC and determine difference between PTC and control. If they can not taste PTC then they are not a supertaster.” This probably does not apply to me.**

**From the “Background Information” leaflet that comes with the test strips: " The ability to taste Thiourea is genetically linked to PTC because they’re similar chemicals, however, this doesn’t mean you will have the same reaction to both. PTC and Thiourea are not identical, so some people may taste PTC but not Thiourea, or vice versa."

The Thiourea strip was the only one that had an obvious flavor to me, standing alone. The Sodium Benzoate strip did have a faint flavor, and it became a bit more obvious as I worked through the other strips and those others to compare it against. So, honestly, I don’t know what to take from these results. If the Thiourea and PTC strips are interchangeable, as far as analysis of test results are concerned, then maybe I’m a “standard supertaster”? The leaflet including the above-listed test results, in the definition for “Standard supertaster” does not reference both the T and PTC strips, which makes me wonder if those two strips are interchangeable for test results purposes. Maybe I should send an email to the company and ask them what they think of my results …

Fun exercise! Thanks, Guillermo!

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That test strip configuration seems weird, since - according to Wikipedia - the capability to taste phenylthiourea (or phenylthiocarbamide) is definitely genetical, but on average about 70% of people can taste PTC. The capability to taste PTC ranges from 58% to 98% of the population, where people who can taste it will taste it bitter, others do not taste anything at all.

However, that would mean that approx. 70% of the world’s people are supertasters and 30% are normal tasters. That doesn’t sound right to me.

Furthermore, apparently the tasting threshold is something that is affected by the consumption of bitter flavors (eg. black coffee) and smoking. Meaning that even people who can taste PTC might now taste it in low enough concentrations.

It really doesn’t make sense to categorize people who just are capable of tasting PTC as supertasters, but more like people who will taste it as unbearably bitter right from the get-go and spit the stuff out, compared to people who just say “eh, tastes bitter”. If a large portion of people can taste PTC and TC to some degree, I think it would make sense to call these people normal tasters and not something like “recessive supertaster”.

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Wait. So you have a Yak palate like me?

Embrace it!

I think if there’s something we’re all in agreement about, it’s that the nomenclature was a mistake from the outset.

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Ha!! Maybe this is what it takes to like Loire Cab Franc?!? … seriously, though, I would not want to be a “supertaster” — sounds like it would drive me more towards bland food, and may cause me to dislike many of the consumables I currently enjoy so much.