How can I track the temperature along a shipping route?

[Carlos_Duarte]

Best bet is to buy it and ask them to hold off on shipping for cooler weather. I have never had them say no.

[Jay_Winton]

@Carlos Duarte

Best bet is to buy it and ask them to hold off on shipping for cooler weather. I have never had them say no.

And if the shipping department is doing their job THEY should be tracking the route weather. But I agree, wait until later in the year for anything other than overnight.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

@Robert Grenley

@Tom G l a s g o w

Here is a map:

http://www-archive.shipcompliant.com/resources/tools/temp-map/

That is very interesting. What is the story with this?
Is this a sample for a service that wineries pay and sign up for?

I think wineries can use the maps or download a zip file. I’ve used the maps but the high limit is only 70.

There should be another thread on WB

This link doesn’t work. Anyone know of something similar?

[RickieM]

This seems to be helpful. You can enlarge the map to show your area (or scroll using the mouse pointer) and select to show maximum temperature.

https://digital.weather.gov/

[Mark_Thompson]

Another factor I’ve worried about with ground shipping is how much hotter might the inside of a semi trailer get in the sun versus ambient? Am I killed into a false sense of security if the “worst” weather is 78 and sunny on the way from CA, but that could really mean 100? I’d view the risk as low in this scenario, particularly if styrofoam shippers were used, but who knows?

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

This seems to be helpful. You can enlarge the map to show your area (or scroll using the mouse pointer) and select to show maximum temperature.

https://digital.weather.gov/

That’s good, thank you.

[Victor_Hong]

I’d like to find out the temperature range between point A (wine store) and point B (my office) to determine when it’s safe to have my wines shipped. I suppose I need to determine the FedEx and UPS ground routes, then search cities in between.

Thanks for any suggestions to simplify the process!

Become a truck driver.

[Chris_Seiber]

Just don’t look.

Seriously.

Or you can go to the other extreme like Charlie Fu and assume that if anywhere in the USA has a high over 75 degrees, it’s not safe to ship.

[GregT]

@T Wills

You know, eggs, milk, ice cream, produce, meat gets shipped all over the place with no concerns about outside temps or the season. Why can’t wine be treated as well as milk?

People don’t think of wine as perishable.

Because individual customers don’t order a half gallon of milk from five states away. And, milk has a sell-by date on it. If it sits in a warm place and gets nice and toasty, that compromises the sell-by date.

But I think Ponsot has something that he puts on his wines now to indicate whether it’s hit some temperature threshold. He’s making it available to other producers too. And you or your retailers can buy something to indicate temp thresholds as well:

https://www.tgoldkamp.com/warmmark-short-run-30-176-c-86-176-f.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImYCIofSF5QIVBdVkCh0FPQg2EAQYAiABEgJrBPD_BwE

In any event, I think people obsess over temps WAY more than they need to. Wine has been shipped for many years and it hasn’t all crapped out.

[Yao_C]

But I think Ponsot has something that he puts on his wines now to indicate whether it’s hit some temperature threshold. He’s making it available to other producers too.

Didn’t someone take a hairdryer to one of those dots with no change whatsoever?

[T_Wills]

@T Wills

You know, eggs, milk, ice cream, produce, meat gets shipped all over the place with no concerns about outside temps or the season. Why can’t wine be treated as well as milk?

People don’t think of wine as perishable.

Because individual customers don’t order a half gallon of milk from five states away. And, milk has a sell-by date on it. If it sits in a warm place and gets nice and toasty, that compromises the sell-by date.

But I think Ponsot has something that he puts on his wines now to indicate whether it’s hit some temperature threshold. He’s making it available to other producers too. And you or your retailers can buy something to indicate temp thresholds as well:

https://www.tgoldkamp.com/warmmark-short-run-30-176-c-86-176-f.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImYCIofSF5QIVBdVkCh0FPQg2EAQYAiABEgJrBPD_BwE

In any event, I think people obsess over temps WAY more than they need to. Wine has been shipped for many years and it hasn’t all crapped out.

Well I buy mexican produce all the time at just about any grocery. Chinese and S American frozen seafood imports everywhere. Those items are more sensitive to shipping conditions than wine yet so much wine gets cooked on the way. I don’t understand why wine cannot be shipped properly in perfect conditions.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

People don’t think of wine as perishable.

Because individual customers don’t order a half gallon of milk from five states away. And, milk has a sell-by date on it. If it sits in a warm place and gets nice and toasty, that compromises the sell-by date.

But I think Ponsot has something that he puts on his wines now to indicate whether it’s hit some temperature threshold. He’s making it available to other producers too. And you or your retailers can buy something to indicate temp thresholds as well:

https://www.tgoldkamp.com/warmmark-short-run-30-176-c-86-176-f.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImYCIofSF5QIVBdVkCh0FPQg2EAQYAiABEgJrBPD_BwE

In any event, I think people obsess over temps WAY more than they need to. Wine has been shipped for many years and it hasn’t all crapped out.

Well I buy mexican produce all the time at just about any grocery. Chinese and S American frozen seafood imports everywhere. Those items are more sensitive to shipping conditions than wine yet so much wine gets cooked on the way. I don’t understand why wine cannot be shipped properly in perfect conditions.

Because some people don’t gaf?

[Frank_Drew]

You know, eggs, milk, ice cream, produce, meat gets shipped all over the place with no concerns about outside temps or the season. Why can’t wine be treated as well as milk?

That’s exactly the answer; those and dozens of other temperature sensitive but often much less expensive commodities get shipped safely all over the globe every day all year round; for reasons of their own, too much of the fine wine industry can’t (won’t) follow suit. Does anyone think that the dairy manager at your local supermarket stays up at night worrying about the temperatures of this week’s milk and butter shipments?

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

You know, eggs, milk, ice cream, produce, meat gets shipped all over the place with no concerns about outside temps or the season. Why can’t wine be treated as well as milk?

That’s exactly the answer; those and dozens of other temperature sensitive but often much less expensive commodities get shipped safely all over the globe every day all year round; for reasons of their own, too much of the fine wine industry can’t (won’t) follow suit. Dies anyone think that the dairy manager at your local supermarket stays up at night worrying about the temperatures of this week’s milk and butter shipments?

A lot of importers do ship temperature controlled. You can’t compare the logistics of the food industry to retail wine shipments. You think milk and butter are shipped via UPS or FedEx?

[larry_schaffer]

Such an interesting thread - and one that is bound to lead to lots of potential answers and suggestions. Yep, there probably is $$$ to be made by creating and marketing an ‘accurate’ way to assess temperatures during shipping. I know that Leslie Fischer has posted extensively on this in the past - not sure if she is still around here or not. And I’ve heard the same about the Ponsot dots - that they are not accurate.

The question - who would ultimately pay for this technology? Remember that in some cases, you are shipping wines with a case price in excess of $1000- another $25 or so does not seem like that much. But what if it’s a case that costs $250 or $300 - that $25 becomes a much greater ‘cost’ of the process.

Even in cases where wineries and third party shippers are ‘on it’, shit happens - Mother Nature is far from perfect and does not follow every model out there.

As others have pointed out, tons of wines get shipped across the pond - how do you know how these are handled from the winery door to the warehouse? You don’t - and assume that things are well taken care of but . . .

Love the thread and can’t wait to hear more.

Cheers.

[Frank_Drew]

As for wine’s alleged robustness, is there anyone here who would willingly choose a wine that had been exposed to temperatures in the 80s and above for at least a few weeks vs one known to have been kept below, say, 60-65 it’s entire life? If so, please raise your hands.

[larry_schaffer]

As for wine’s alleged robustness, is there anyone here who would willingly choose a wine that had been exposed to temperatures in the 80s and above for at least a few weeks vs one known to have been kept below, say, 60-65 it’s entire life? If so, please raise your hands.

Frank,

I’m sure the question on this board is no, no one would be willing to do so. The real question should be whether folks have ‘experimented’ to see what the difference in taste/texture etc would be in these two situations. I know that some on this board have done ‘trials’ with wines stored at ambient temperatures vs in a temp controlled cellar.

Scientifically, we know that elevated temperature accelerate the aging process of a wine - and extreme temperatures will ‘cook’ a wine, but I’m not sure if we truly understand the variables at play here precisely, and that’s the challenge. And then, of course, add on to that the possibility that ‘older’ wines will handle these situations differently than ‘younger’ wines - and let’s not even get into how many ‘natural’ wines will handle this

Cheers!

[Frank_Drew]

A lot of importers do ship temperature controlled. You can’t compare the logistics of the food industry to retail wine shipments. You think milk and butter are shipped via UPS or FedEx?

Do you think that any but a small fraction of wine gets shipped by UPS or Fed Ex? Even those of us here still buy lots and lots of wine from local shops, and those retail-bound shipments operate by the same logic as the corner store selling ice cream.

It can be done; wine can be delivered as worry-free as a carton of eggs, if the industry decides to do it.

[Frank_Drew]

As for wine’s alleged robustness, is there anyone here who would willingly choose a wine that had been exposed to temperatures in the 80s and above for at least a few weeks vs one known to have been kept below, say, 60-65 it’s entire life? If so, please raise your hands.

Frank,

I’m sure the question on this board is no, no one would be willing to do so. The real question should be whether folks have ‘experimented’ to see what the difference in taste/texture etc would be in these two situations. I know that some on this board have done ‘trials’ with wines stored at ambient temperatures vs in a temp controlled cellar.

Scientifically, we know that elevated temperature accelerate the aging process of a wine - and extreme temperatures will ‘cook’ a wine, but I’m not sure if we truly understand the variables at play here precisely, and that’s the challenge. And then, of course, add on to that the possibility that ‘older’ wines will handle these situations differently than ‘younger’ wines - and let’s not even get into how many ‘natural’ wines will handle this

Cheers!

Larry, thanks for your response but asking for perfect knowledge before addressing a problem reminds me of the arguments against action on climate change.

If everybody who really cares about wine agrees that temperature controlled storage and shipping is ideal, and since we know from the evidence in other industries that accomplishing this isn’t so difficult or expensive, let’s just do it already. I mean, really, it’s been decades that we’ve been discussing this, but every time we revisit the issue the same rationales for the not-really-satisfactory status quo are dredged up.

Where’s Trent when we need him? (Famous rant on subject.)

[larry_schaffer]

Frank,

Who do you suggest pay for this? If there was enough demand, I believe you’d see someone come up with a workable ‘solution’ that would not cost much - but without the demand, and without consumers truly ‘speaking up’ about the problem, I don’t see anything happening.

Shipping is already a ‘challenge’ for the wine industry - whether it be wineries shipping directly, using third parties, or retailers shipping. The cost to ship wine is simply quite expensive, and in this day and age where consumers are programmed to get free shipping or heavily reduced shipping with other products, it puts a strain on wineries to follow - and eat these costs, further digging in to challenging margins or passing these along to the consumer in another way.

I’m all for coming up with solutions - but I’m also a realist . . .