Yes, I know. Taste is subjective, we all define “high end” differently, my “worth it” is different than your “worth it” etc etc etc. But I want to know what YOU think. As I said in my original post; I’m curious about bottles that are above people’s usual budget that left them thinking, “oh yeah- that was worth it”.
It’s going to be different for everyone. I realize that. That’s sort of the point. So give us your own personal list of high-end producers that you think are worth it. Whatever those terms mean to you. Have at it!
I’ve written CellarTracker notes for the following producers. You’ll see that many = are quality producers, but there’s no DRC, Rousseau, or others of that ilk. Bottles range from regional up to Grand Cru and everything in between. This isn’t a comprehensive list, but this is what I’ve got:
Red (including Beaujolais)
Simon Bize
Amiot-Servelle
Jadot
Remoissenet
Paul Janin
Bouchard
Chapuis & Chapuis
Champy
Drouhin
Calot Morgon
Delarche
Tardy
Meo-Camuzet
Francouis Gaunoux
Ravaut
Thivin
Lapierre
White (including Chablis)
William Fevre
PYCM
Vincent Couche (usually a Champagne producer)
Louis Michel
Pascal Boucard
Defaix
Guy Robin
Remoissenent
Moreau
Rollin
A et P Villaine
Andre Moingeon
Simon Billaud
Because while every palate is different, I’d think you’d agree that most of the people here can identify good wine, great wine and can discuss their epiphany/wowza wines. When you correlate that to also what people say was a relative bargain and then get a wide enough group you will probably start seeing islands of votes for the same thing.
Those islands are probably good places to drink. I don’t know your palate but I know mine and I’ve drunk wide enough to know which of those islands would be in my lane, which may be a great place to visit and try and which I don’t need to bother with.
I had a pretty good idea of what I was going to find when I went through your CT and I was essentially right. Almost all the wines you had were from mid or low tier producers from undistinguished vintages. A ton of 04s and 11s and a 97 corton from a producer I’ve never heard of. Some Jadot and Bouchard drank pretty early, and the only expensive wine (from a mid tier producer) from a good (not great) vintage was the 02 tardy Clos Vougeot which you thought was too smooth? I would imagine many burg enthusiasts would have really liked it, but beyond that, sort of suggests if you’re looking at burgundy you may like sites like Clos de La Roche or some of the Vosne sites more.
As Berserkers are wont to do, you (and many others) are assuming he wants guidance, suggestions or advice. Sounds to me like he really just wants to hear other people’s stories.
For 99.9% of the world (and even middle class Americans), wine costing over $50/btl is VERY expensive — a special occasion bottle if consumed ever. And I’m sure virtually everyone here could easily rattle off a couple dozen producers that make wine at this price point that we absolutely consider “worth” the price just off the top of our head.
For those afflicted with the disease of wine collecting, it gets messy. Cost goes up exponentially at the highest end and your income/net worth really starts to come into play. If you’re worth $1B, and there’s no practical difference to you between a $1000 grand cru and $100 village wine, then yeah, the $1000 bottle is worth it. If you make $100k and the $1000 bottle is a once a year (if ever) treat, not so much.
That may be true, but I think you might have missed the message on Burgundy. No offense, but to me this producer list looks like a list of disappointment, which is the vibe I get from some of your posts. Burgundy is all about producer, producer, producer just like cars are about brands. You are never going to get a Porsche experience in a Ford. You might find some great Fords if you drive enough of them, but if you are looking for that magical experience, you will continue to be disappointed.
Which is not to say you can’t find lovely wines in your producer list and you probably have drunk some wonderful wines. If you took them for what they were and enjoyed them as such, I think you would be happier. But if you are continually disappointed, perhaps your expectations don’t match reality.
While that’s directionally true, you can get old no-name bottles that wow and plenty of old blue chip that disappoint. But if the goal here is to find burgs that are “worth it” to the OP, then agree that there is plenty of work that can be done in producer/vintage selection to try to get to that level.
Everyone keeps bringing up that hypothetical billionaire. Todd may know but I don’t think there are a whole lot of them on this board. Regardles sof if there are, they can still say that $1,000 bottle of wine was a lot better than this $1,000 bottle of wine.
I will say however, I’m a part of a small mostly private car forum that has 4-5 billionaires and probably a couple of dozen guys that are worth nine figures and their tastes and thriftiness aren’t much different than anyone elses. One of the guys just bought a Peugeot 205 that he’s going nuts over, totally geeking out on. He also has two Bugatti Chirons…
I think that michaels commentary is probably the most useful to seeking the burgundy answer for this. What price point do you expect “wowza” at?
For me I would set the wowza level at $250. Got lucky to find two bottles on a list for that last fall and they delivered… 1994 LDH GR Blanco and 2004 M Sorrel Hermitage Le Meal
I only usually taste or drink 3-4 wowza per year and have found the hi-lo my preferred purchasing method. Tons of plenty good stuff at $20ish, tons of really good stuff around the $50 range, then skip most between that and the $250 tier.
Most disappointments in burgundy mirror what @MChang has said. Decent producers in lessor vintage, ok producer and good vineyard, etc. which typically cost me between $75-150. Still picking up random stuff in that range but trying desperately to go lower or higher and learn from experience.
Numerous posts in this thread mention tasting some of the more famous vineyards from moderate or weak vintages. That’s like comparing a Honda Civic to an Aston Martin. Yes, they both get you there, but the rides are not the same. You cannot compare sitting in the bleachers with floor seats, flying private with economy class, etc. The list of comparisons is endless.
The cost or perceived value of something is based in large part on a person’s available income. It really is that simple. I have friends with incredible levels of personal wealth. While it is not an everyday experience, they have shared Romanee Conti, Petrus, Le Pin, Rousseau, etc. It is not that much money for them.
That is not to say that all high-end wines are worth the tariff. IMO, and I have tasted many of them, they aren’t. But there is a reason numerous famous wines support a high price. They are unique tasting experiences, providing something other wines do not.
Am I the one missing something or is it a bunch of everyone else? No one is disputing that there are people the drink better than others, or at least drink more expensive than others.
Christ if we’re having a pissing contest, my mentor growing up when he moved from London to Toronto in the mid-80’s charted a ship to bring his close to 100,000 bottle collection across the pond and his everyday house wine was Charles Noellet Romanee Genevrieres. He probably didn’t care if a bottle cost a grand but he certainly had thoughts of if it was good in relation to what it should be.
Jeff’s last line is what this is all about. Some wine isn’t worth the tariff and it doesn’t matter if your “high-end” is $50, $500 or $5000. Many are, and some you’d say, I’d buy that at twice the price. Regardless of if that means $100, $1000 or $10,000 that’s the question.
I’ve had Petrus that didn’t knock my socks off, I’ve had a lot of Latour and Margaux which didn’t knock my socks off. I couldn’t afford to daily drink them, but I could afford to buy them. I don’t. Conversely I"ve never had a Rayas which didn’t wow me and want me to buy. I"ve never had a Bolly RD which didn’t make me say, man I need to buy more of this.
Maybe a good way to focus on the question is to think of times you paid at the top end of your range, later had the bottle, and either said to yourself “that was totally worth it and I’m glad I spent the money” or “if I had it to do over again, I wouldn’t pay nearly that much for that wine.”