would you mind contrasting schrader/maybach please?
thanks
Jeez, you have lost track of more wines in Calif than I could remember off the top of my head. Nice to see you are alive and well!
Thomas is expert in both enology and viticulture, so I think any comparison needs to be informed by his uncanny ability to maximize the potential of site, clone, terroir, etc.
Schrader (Tokalon versions specifically) are differentiated from Maybach most notably in their fruit color profile and textural quality. Schrader is all red fruit, whereas Maybach is predominantly black fruit. Both are well structured and carry a heavy tannin load. Maybach is fairly round out of the gate, whereas Schrader requires some cellar time due to more angular tannin.
Both are fantastic cabs. Schrader may be more elegant, generally speaking, but Maybach offers a unique flavor I haven’t found in any other Cali Cab. I suspect it’s the vineyard. Turnbull does a far inferior version from the same site, but offers a similar flavor that I would describe as a hypothetical hybrid of clone 4 cab and petite sirah.
In my travels I have found Rivers-Marie Panek CS to be the closest thing to Schrader. I have called it a ‘Baby Schrader’.
Sounds like a fun journey you are on.
Cheers!
Give Mending Wall a try. Did a tasting there late last year and the wines were stellar.
TRB makes lots of his project wines there and the winery is in a great setting.
Best part was the 13 & 14 Cab bottles were $92 out the door.
Both are fantastic cabs. Schrader may be more elegant, generally speaking, but Maybach offers a unique flavor I haven’t found in any other Cali Cab. I suspect it’s the vineyard. Turnbull does a far inferior version from the same site, but offers a similar flavor that I would describe as a hypothetical hybrid of clone 4 cab and petite sirah.
If Turnbull is making a “far inferior” wine from the same vineyard do you think the reason has more to do with the site (e.g. they have selected inferior blocks) vs. inferior winemaking techniques? I’m sure it’s likely a combination, but I’m curious how much the site vs. winemaking has to do with it.
Also, if Turnbull owns the vineyard why wouldn’t they want to keep the best blocks for themselves?
Let me throw out something others haven’t mentioned yet: the Justice series from Bounty Hunter. Frontier Justice, Blind Justice, and Poetic Justice.
Frontier Justice is a blend of Beckstoffer Dr. Crane and Beckstoffer To Kalon grapes. Blind Justice is all To Kalon, and so is Poetic Justice. Each is distinctive, and their price point is a bit below Schrader. I think they are good value for the money. Just my opinion of course.
great take. i find schrader to be just always balanced, playful yet serious, and yes fairly tannic young. if i had to guess id say maybach pH would lend closer to the 4.0 realm, possessing similar (actual) alcohol to schrader (low to mid 15’s).
still, these are tough to compare as to kalon yields, even for schrader, are far higher than the maybach sites, and the elevation makes for a different wine as well.
Who is the winemaker?
He’s a guy named Tim Milos/Timothy Milos (I put both for the benefit of people searching for him on here in the future). He has a pretty long winemaking resume, and recently got a 100 point score from Wine Advocate/Robert Parker for his 2013 Hidden Ridge Impassable Mountain Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon. He has lots of scores in the mid 90s across a variety of wines, if you care about such things.
Here’s a page about him I found listing some of the other wines he has made: Haber Family Vineyards
Thanks.
Remember him from Girard.
Good question; also, which Vineyard is this?
It’s the Weitz vineyard in East Oakville next to Dalla Valle and Peter Michael Au Paradis. Turnbull sells their vineyard designate from Weitz under the name Leopoldina, but it’s the same vineyard. I’ve never had Maybach or Turnbull from there, but Carter makes a Weitz vineyard wine that I have tried and thought it amazing with layers of dark fruit and a viscous creamy texture.
I think it’s a fairly sizeable vineyard so I’m sure there is variation in the quality of fruit from various blocks but since I believe Turnbull owns the vineyard they should get first dibs at the best fruit. That’s why I wonder if there is something in the winemaking that Maybach is doing that is pushing their wine up a level in quality.
Sorry, I am still confused about the linkage between Mayback and Turnbull is they are not making wine from the same vineyard. I am not disagreeing with your postulate, just lost in the logic. Maybe more of a rhetorical question at this point.
It is the same vineyard. Maybach Materium is made from grapes from the Weitz Vineyard, which is owned by Turnbull. Turnbull Leopoldina is also made from grapes from the Weitz vineyard. They also sell grapes from that vineyard to several others, including Realm and Carter.
My mistake! Thank you for clarifying, did not know that was the source for Materium.
Eric S n y d e r - Favorites have certainly emerged and are continuing to emerge. Schrader is still top shelf for me, but Maybach and Outpost have been very impressive, along with Realm. And while they’re different from Schrader in terms of fruit profile etc., they have garnered WOTN on more than one occasion. Overall I’d have to say Maybach has changed my thinking as to what my favorite Napa Cab may be at this point.
Eric LaMasters - So may of these are great in their own way so it’s nearly impossible to pick. But Maybach, as mentioned above, is a wine I’m going very heavy on in the cellar. Also, I have to say that Teeter Totter and Scarlett (the non reserve) are a fantastic value. They drink near or above the $100 price point to me, yet are far below that in first hand cost. I’ve stocked up on those as well.
Joe B - In terms of which actually compared to Schrader, none really compared “apples to apples” that well in terms of fruit profile and style. Carter was really close though which I thought was great. I’ve acquired some older vintages of Carter through a friend which I’ll be exploring soon since the ones I’ve tried so far have been 2012, 2013, and 2014.
Brian Tuite - Haha, absolutely. But I wouldn’t have it any other way. This is too much fun.
Seo S a l i m i - Screaming Eagle was via a very good (and generous) friend. That same night we had a number of TRB and Mike Smith wines. While the Screaming Eagle was amazing, at second hand prices I just don’t see the value with so many other great options out there at a fraction of the price. But a bucket list wine for sure.
I forgot to add, the Realm Bard 2012 was right up my alley. Darker fruit, thick, rich, fatty, yet enough acid and tannin to carry the weight. I was able to snag 6 bottles from a friend, but I’d by it in cases if I could. I loved it.
Gents - I look forward to continuing the conversation. Onward to explore more great wine…