Help with Champagne cellaring and new ones to discover (pretty long post...)

[Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r]

My understanding is that the Grande Reserve is also known in the U.S. as the Cuvee Reserve Oubliee, which includes a solera-style perpetual reserve. If that is correct, I would try both since they are different wines, the former (Cufee de Reserve) being lighter and fresh, and the latter being a bit richer, slightly more oxidative style (the price differential is much larger in the U.S. between the Cuvee de Reserve and Reserve Oubliee).

And yes, Chetillions is a really special wine, and I think in the ballpark as the other wines that you mention, and is even better with a bit of bottle age.

Thanks. I decided to get all three Cuvées (got 2 x Les Chétillons, max I could get)… I suck at saying no…

From what I was told, Cuvée de Réserve is 50% blend from previous year and 50% current vintage with 24 to 36 months on lees before disgorgement. Every year, half the blend is kept in stainless, concrete and oak to be used as base for the next year. Currently, the base is 2017 but with vintages going back to 1988 based on perpetual reserve.

Réserve Oubliée is based only on reserve wines. It is a blend based on the 3 best “cuves de réserve” kept to make the Cuvée de Réserve (best stainless, best concrete and best oak foudre). It is kept 5 to 6 years on lees before disgorgement. Currently, it is a 2014 base with again, vintages going back to 1988 based on perpetual reserve.

The new cuvée, Grande Réserve, is a blend of 75 to 80% blend of the vintage and 20 to 25% of the blend made for the Réserve Oubliée. It spends 36 to 48 months on lees prior to disgorgement. The current base is 2016 and has slightly more than 20% Réserve Oubliée.

Full info from the importer (in French) below:
En résumé, tout part du principe d’élaboration de la Cuvée de Réserve
Comme vous le savez, ce Champagne non millésimé est élaboré sur le principe des réserves perpétuelles.
La Cuvée de Réserve est assemblée tous les ans à partir d’environ 50% de l’assemblage de l’année précédente et 50% de vins de la nouvelle récolte.
(Tous les ans, environ la moitié de l’assemblage réalisé n’est pas mis en bouteille mais conservé en réserve dans des cuvées inox, des cuves en béton et des grands foudres de chêne, afin de servir de base l’année suivante)
Cette cuvée bouchée avec une capsule couronne classique, est vieillie entre 24 et 36 mois sur lies avant dégorgement.
Actuellement, il s’agit d’une base 2017, mais avec des millésimes qui remontent à 1988 sur le principe de la réserve perpétuelle.
Une fois saisie ce principe il est facile de comprendre La Réserve Oubliée
Cette cuvée est issue uniquement des vins de réserve.
Il s’agit d’un assemblage réalisé à partir de vins des trois meilleurs cuves de réserve conservées pour l’élaboration de la Cuvée de Réserve : du vin de la meilleure cuve Inox, du vin de la meilleure cuve Béton et du vin du meilleur Foudre.
Cette cuvée est bouchée de façon artisanale et traditionnelle avec un bouchons en liège puis elle est vieillie entre 5 et 6 ans sur lies avant dégorgement.
Actuellement, il s’agit d’une base 2014, avec bien sûr des millésimes qui remontent à 1988 puisqu’il s’agit de la réserve perpétuelle.
La nouvelle venue, La Grande Réserve est assemblée à partir de 75 à 80% de assemblage de qualité millésime et 20 à 25% de l’assemblage réalisé pour la Réserve Oubliée.
Cette cuvée bouchée avec une capsule couronne classique, est vieillie entre 36 et 48 mois sur lies avant dégorgement.
Actuellement, il s’agit d’une base 2016, à laquelle a été ajouté un peu plus de 20% des meilleurs vins de notre réserve remontant à 1988.

Accueil

https://www.champagne-peters.com/sites/default/files/reserve.pdf
https://www.champagne-peters.com/sites/default/files/grande-reserve_1.pdf

[Yao_C]

Thank you for the info on the Grande Reserve! Seems right up my alley and I’ll look for it in the US

[Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r]

I tried a few of the recommendations from this topic (the ones I could find) over the past few weeks. I also have an order of Pierre Péters due to come in around November. So to all who contributed, thank you.

Today, I was offered some Jean Sandrin Champagne (Tradition, Harmonie, Prestige, Rosé Aurore and “Les Madeleines” ). I don’t know this producer at all but the prices on this offer are very decent. I looked at CellarTracker reviews and they point to a little bit of RS perceived on their Champagnes (I looked on the producer’s website and they seem to remain in the 6 to 8g/l i.e. Brut). There are only few reviews on the web. Does anybody have any experience with this producer?

[Blake_Brown]

Phil,

Although you state you have tried most of the entry level wines from the big houses, I’ll jump in here to at least suggest you look at 2 houses that produce super good bubbly at very reasonable prices across the board and from vintage to vintage as well as NV: Louis Roederer and Charles Heidsieck.

Also, if I read through your comments correctly, price point is very important and you cite local prices are relatively high; it seems that to go on line, including Wine Searcher, and purchase from sources that even with shipping costs can be less than the local ones would make sense. At least that has been my experience in many case.

Cheers

[Howard_Cooper]

Phil,

Although you state you have tried most of the entry level wines from the big houses, I’ll jump in here to at least suggest you look at 2 houses that produce super good bubbly at very reasonable prices across the board and from vintage to vintage as well as NV: Louis Roederer and Charles Heidsieck.

Also, if I read through your comments correctly, price point is very important and you cite local prices are relatively high; it seems that to go on line, including Wine Searcher, and purchase from sources that even with shipping costs can be less than the local ones would make sense. At least that has been my experience in many case.

Cheers

Phil,

The best suggestion I can give you is to do a search for Blake’s tasting notes on Champagne on this board. I often tease him that reading his notes is about the most expensive thing I do on this board, but there is some really wonderful information on these notes.

[Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r]

Phil,

Although you state you have tried most of the entry level wines from the big houses, I’ll jump in here to at least suggest you look at 2 houses that produce super good bubbly at very reasonable prices across the board and from vintage to vintage as well as NV: Louis Roederer and Charles Heidsieck.

Also, if I read through your comments correctly, price point is very important and you cite local prices are relatively high; it seems that to go on line, including Wine Searcher, and purchase from sources that even with shipping costs can be less than the local ones would make sense. At least that has been my experience in many case.

Cheers

Two very good recommendations for the big houses NV. The Charles Heidsieck, we don’t always have access to but we’ve had it a few times when we find it. The Roederer is pretty much always available and it is part of our regular big houses purchases (along with Taittinger, Bollinger, Ruinart and Jacquesson). I’ve also seen it mentioned many times that for NV entry cuvées, Charles Heidsieck could live a pretty long life and is enjoyable with some age on it. By the way, I read through your “aging champagne” topic a few weeks ago and found it very interesting.

You are right that I love a great QPR! We do splurge on many occasions and the cellar is full of good stuff but we go through a lot of bubbles and we (used to…!) host pretty often and almost always start with Champagne. In regards to importing, it’s not the shipping that hurts. It’s the taxes (including the provincial liquor monopoly, SAQ, “markup” they charge on liquor import even for private consumption).

As an example, a bottle of Roederer Brut NV is sold for 74.75 CAD. A decent US price seems to be around 40 USD. That’s about 53 CAD. Let’s assume 5$ shipping from NY or VT. And now we add the CSBA fees (customs, excise tax and federal sales tax) that’s about 10$. And now the kicker… the SAQ fees because everything liquor related has to go through them, that’s about 40$… yes, 40$ because they charge you a markup so that you are not tempted to buy elsewhere and bypass the system. Your Louis Roederer Brut NV will cost you 108$. Fail.

We just have to live with the fact that Champagne is more expensive around here (not the worse problem in life, we would all agree). My workaround: I go to France pretty often and indulge as much as I can in more expensive or harder to find bottles while I am there.

[Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r]

Phil,

The best suggestion I can give you is to do a search for Blake’s tasting notes on Champagne on this board. I often tease him that reading his notes is about the most expensive thing I do on this board, but there is some really wonderful information on these notes.

Righto. From the ones I’ve read, I agree! Very informative TNs and frequent postings in the “Which Champagne are you drinking” thread.

In regards to my Jean Sandrin inquiry: have you or anybody tried their Champagnes?

[Blake_Brown]

Phil,

Although you state you have tried most of the entry level wines from the big houses, I’ll jump in here to at least suggest you look at 2 houses that produce super good bubbly at very reasonable prices across the board and from vintage to vintage as well as NV: Louis Roederer and Charles Heidsieck.

Also, if I read through your comments correctly, price point is very important and you cite local prices are relatively high; it seems that to go on line, including Wine Searcher, and purchase from sources that even with shipping costs can be less than the local ones would make sense. At least that has been my experience in many case.

Cheers

You are right that I love a great QPR! We do splurge on many occasions and the cellar is full of good stuff but we go through a lot of bubbles and we (used to…!) host pretty often and almost always start with Champagne. In regards to importing, it’s not the shipping that hurts. It’s the taxes (including the provincial liquor monopoly, SAQ, “markup” they charge on liquor import even for private consumption).

As an example, a bottle of Roederer Brut NV is sold for 74.75 CAD. A decent US price seems to be around 40 USD. That’s about 53 CAD. Let’s assume 5$ shipping from NY or VT. And now we add the CSBA fees (customs, excise tax and federal sales tax) that’s about 10$. And now the kicker… the SAQ fees because everything liquor related has to go through them, that’s about 40$… yes, 40$ because they charge you a markup so that you are not tempted to buy elsewhere and bypass the system. Your Louis Roederer Brut NV will cost you 108$. Fail.

We just have to live with the fact that Champagne is more expensive around here (not the worse problem in life, we would all agree). My workaround: I go to France pretty often and indulge as much as I can in more expensive or harder to find bottles while I am there.

I had a feeling you were taking some extra hits in Canada and agree, you may just have to bite the bullet in some instances to get what you want or desire to try. Meanwhile, it appears you’re drinking lots of good stuff and life is good. Lots of cheers,