Help me identify this wine defect

[Alan_Rath]

@JC Taylor

I’ve never been able to identify a corked wine from the well known descriptions - wet cardboard, off smells.

JC, this is not uncommon for a lot of people, at least until they learn the distinct small of TCA. I’m a chemist, so am kind of used to learning the signature smells of particular substances (though I haven’t done wet chemistry in years, so have forgotten a ton). Just as you probably know the smell of, say, honey very well, or a single chemical aroma like isopropyl alcohol, the smell of TCA is very distinct and identifiable. You’ve almost certainly smelled it in a wine, and if not, then out in the environment (particularly in colder, wetter climates like yours in winter). Areas like wet bark covered ground are notorious for developing TCA aroma. Or processed bagged carrots can sometimes show it. But the best way to learn is probably to go into your local wine shop, and ask if they have a corked bottle in the back that they opened, or someone returned, and ask to take a whiff.

[Wes_Barton]

@John Morris

@Alan Rath

I’ve certainly had the experience of a wine that I or someone else suspected of having TCA, that only became obvious after more air time. I’m saying two things here: 1) I’ve had wines that lacked their normal flavor, but never showed obvious TCA. I do believe there are other faults that might cause this besides TCA, though I don’t know definitively what those are.

I don’t think we really disagree then.

Obviously, if you can’t smell TCA, you can’t be sure it’s the explanation for a boring wine in the absence of lab tests. It might be something else. But, if another bottle of the same wine does have flavor, I think that raises the odds that it’s TCA since many other flaws would be common to a barrel or a whole lot.

Yes, this bottle being muted is consistent with TCA and with other explanations. Wines go through weird phases. Short-term phases of a young wine can be out of sync with other bottles of the same wine (despite coming out of the same case and being stored together).

If anyone wants to pore through scientific research on TCA, here’s the place: http://ajevonline.org/search?fulltext=tca&submit=yes&x=0&y=0

“Wet cardboard” as a descriptor isn’t literal. It is alluding to wet cardboard that is TCA contaminated smelling like TCA due to the TCA. The moisture created a hospitable environment for mold spores to flourish, the cardboard provided the chlorine to react with and produce TCA. It has a distinct musty smell and can be found many places.

[JC_Taylor]

Thanks, everybody. Mildly tainted with TCA sounds as good as anything. No one else at the table picked up an off smell, and as noted, my daughter also said “muted” as a description. Maybe, the bottle would have developed a more signature TCA taint if left for a while.

The restaurant is Bar Les Freres in Clayton, a close suburb of St. Louis. We’ve been happy on the two occasions we visited.

[lleichtman]

@JC Taylor

I’ve never been able to identify a corked wine from the well known descriptions - wet cardboard, off smells. But, occasionally I get a wine that just tastes off. Sometimes it is a wine that I’ve owned other bottles, and I know there is a difference in the quality, sometimes I know it is just off.

The other night I dined with my family at a local French restaurant, and ordered a bottle of cru bordeaux, Château Tournefeuille Lalande de Pomerol 2009. I was finishing a cocktail so the waiter did not ask me to taste the bottle when he opened it. He poured for all of us, and I took a few sips, and initially thought this just needs a little air. After a while, I tried again, and thought it off. By off I mean very little aroma, subdued taste, no acidity, just kind of dead. I asked my daughter what she thought, and she said it tasted “muted”.

I called the waiter over, told him I didn’t know if it was corked, but just thought it off. He called over the manager, who poured himself a glass, took a whiff, and said “there’s nothing there. This wines normally presents a very nice bouquet, but there is definitely something wrong here.” He didn’t taste it.

He asked if we wanted another bottle of the same wine, which we did. From the first, the wine came over differently, and better. There was a bouquet, and some acidity in the taste. It definitely would have benefited from some more age or air, but it tasted “alive” where the previous was dead.

Was this wine corked, or is this muted, dead, lifeless description an indication of something else? I would also point out when I’ve noticed this occasionally from wines in my cellar, it occurred in wines where I had bought multiple bottles from the winery, in recent vintages. So, some bottle variation, but I don’t think the “bad” bottles had been exposed to anything different (heat for example) than the bottles that showed well.

What do you think?

What you are describing sounds like low levels of TCA. It will make the wine off even at low levels causing it to lose flavor or aroma or both even without the wet cardboard smell. Everyone has different levels of TCA they can smell.

[lleichtman]

Another vote for screwcaps IMO.

[Merrill_Lindquist]

Nothing new to add but will join the chorus of low-level TCA. And if you had moved it to your kitchen shelf for the night, perhaps it would have increased in its corked aroma.

Well done by the restaurant.