GRANDS CRUS vs. Premier Crus - what´s the difference?

Jurgen_Steinke · July 5, 2018, 2:56pm

True!

paul_hanna · July 6, 2018, 5:09am

Marcus Stanley:

paul hanna:

One point that hasn’t really been mentioned (and I say this because we see a LOT of high end GC Burgs blind - and they don’t always look great) is that sometimes a wine can be a better drink, but still not a better wine.

What I mean is that a more open and approachable, more ready, prettier (this sort of Burg wins so often blind), more easy going, more “drinkable” wine often gets the points in any sort of blind tastings, but may still not be a better wine…(from a more qualitative perspective).

So a more complex, more structured, deeper/darker, more powerful wine (i.e. a GC) doesn’t always beat a more attractive, open wine (say a 1’er or Village wine).

My favorite example of this was when I served an '05 Rouget Vosne (village) wine 100% blind against 3 DRC’s (including a La Tache) and some other GC’s, and the Rouget took unanimous first place.

This doesn’t actually mean in the end that the GC isn’t the better wine - it is, it will be, and will (generally) show so in time…

LOL. So you served a $300 wine made by Henri Jayer’s nephew against some DRCs and it won a blind tasting. I for one am not surprised! It seems possible to me that the $300 wine made by Henri Jayer’s nephew actually was the better wine – certainly based on pricing the market believes that Rouget’s wines have that potential regardless of terroir.

This seems like a data point for the idea that a great producer can make great wines on terroirs that were not traditionally classed as grand cru and that some of the GC/village distinction is about the level of care given and the production techniques used.

At the time was actually more like a $100 wine (Vs la Tache maybe 2k, so still 20 bottles to 1 price wise), but don’t let that get in the way of your good story…thanks though for adding meaningfully to the conversation.

paul_hanna · July 6, 2018, 5:14am

I think most people guessed that soem of the wine that weren’t perhaps no 1 were DRC, but the ncie thing about the group is that they do tend to look more at what is in the glass…

I’d say 30% of what we drink is from the 20’s to 60’s, with a significant amount also from the late 80’s to late 90’s, so don’t see how you came to that conclusion…

James_Billy · July 6, 2018, 12:07pm

Sorry, I must have misunderstood.

Marcu_Stanley · July 7, 2018, 2:09pm

paul hanna:

Marcus Stanley:

paul hanna:

One point that hasn’t really been mentioned (and I say this because we see a LOT of high end GC Burgs blind - and they don’t always look great) is that sometimes a wine can be a better drink, but still not a better wine.

What I mean is that a more open and approachable, more ready, prettier (this sort of Burg wins so often blind), more easy going, more “drinkable” wine often gets the points in any sort of blind tastings, but may still not be a better wine…(from a more qualitative perspective).

So a more complex, more structured, deeper/darker, more powerful wine (i.e. a GC) doesn’t always beat a more attractive, open wine (say a 1’er or Village wine).

My favorite example of this was when I served an '05 Rouget Vosne (village) wine 100% blind against 3 DRC’s (including a La Tache) and some other GC’s, and the Rouget took unanimous first place.

This doesn’t actually mean in the end that the GC isn’t the better wine - it is, it will be, and will (generally) show so in time…

LOL. So you served a $300 wine made by Henri Jayer’s nephew against some DRCs and it won a blind tasting. I for one am not surprised! It seems possible to me that the $300 wine made by Henri Jayer’s nephew actually was the better wine – certainly based on pricing the market believes that Rouget’s wines have that potential regardless of terroir.

This seems like a data point for the idea that a great producer can make great wines on terroirs that were not traditionally classed as grand cru and that some of the GC/village distinction is about the level of care given and the production techniques used.

At the time was actually more like a $100 wine (Vs la Tache maybe 2k, so still 20 bottles to 1 price wise), but don’t let that get in the way of your good story…thanks though for adding meaningfully to the conversation.

I snarked it up a bit (sorry) but I was making a real point – you were tasting a village from one of the most famous and respected producers in Burgundy, a village that the market prices like a low to mid level Grand Cru, against the very top level GCs. Still an upset but less of one than someone might think just seeing village vs DRC.

Gerhard_P · July 7, 2018, 2:29pm

Sorry, did I miss the vintage of the DRCs? Also 2005?
I´m not that surprised. I had several DRCs that didn´t give very much at some time, but were great a decade later.
I once had a Rouget VR Village (vineyard designated) which I thought to be a good 1er Cru … (at the label only E.R. at Flagey-Echezeaux) … very young at the time and quite open …

Jurgen_Steinke · July 7, 2018, 4:10pm

Marcus,

so what? The question was if a village wine can beat a Grand Cru. And if I understood things right, Paul talked about mature DRC. I am sure the Rouget is not the only wine who is able to achieve this.

BTW: I am still convinced that everyone who tastes blind often enough knows that the hierarchy is not mirrored by the results. Even when the wines are mature.