Where would you say they sit style-wise between the lighter Huber-Fürst style and the much broader-bodied style of some others.
It’s definitely not big or heavy. If I had to describe the style, I would say it’s very clear and precise. The entry-level bottling, the Von Loss, is quite light and approachable young. The bottlings from named sites probably do need a bit of time in bottle and are more concentrated, although I still wouldn’t call them heavy.
If I had to describe them in my own terms, I would say: if Wasenhaus is in a style that is a bit Burgundian and a bit natural, then Peter Wagner represents the Burgundian influence of Wasenhaus, but without the natural style. Wagner is, for me, a Pinot Noir–like Spätburgunder. It does have some of the aspects of Spätburgunder, obviously, but because of the precision of the wines on the palate, there is pace to find elements like very specific rose or violet floral notes that I would more commonly associate with Burgundy.
There are some posts I agree with upthread where Eric E. enthuses about P. Wagner (#1786 ish).
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That’s super helpful - thank you so much!
2018 Ziereisen Tschuppen was very good and quite youthful tonight. Pretty, sticky red fruit, tobacco, and a pleasant medicinal/evergreen component on the nose. Bright and energetic on the palate, with some noticeable grip. With this bottled under screwcap, I could see it going another five years without any trouble.
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Can anyone please recommend a good winery to visit near Fürst (where I have an appointment) or on the way there from Frankfurt? Giegerich? Josef Walter?
Thank you!
If you want something very close Josef Walter seems to be the best bet. I really like the wines but I have never visited. All of the other Franken wineries like Leipold and Paul Weltner are an hour or so away. I never realized how far they are apart and how close Fürst is to Frankfurt.
Thank you, Robert - yes, I have just had that realisation! I think a visit to the Silvaner stars further east will have to wait for another trip, sadly 
I will give Josef Walter a try.
Sorry no picture to share— a little stress at home here due to some unforeseen emergencies.
Jonas Dostert - Pinot Noir 2020
Clear viscosity and a darker ruby color to it. First day open there was a slight VA lifting up the aromas of ripe cherry and darker berries, but on day two this has become more of a tomato consomé thing and the VA has disappeared. It’s giving very clear Burgundy vibes, stylistically along the more darker ends of the region. Dark brooding fruit, fair amount of oak. It’s a very impressive first vintage for a young winemaker like this and I think everything coming in the future must be taken very seriously, and I expect that the complexity and length will improve as vines grow older. Very good.
The craziest thing is that this was 25€ a bottle…
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Should these be allowed to age further, or is it best to drink now?
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I think that depends on your preferences. Certainly has the bones for laying some 10 years, but I’d say drink now and within 7 years. If he skipped in the previous years and only decide to produce the wines in the warmer vintages like this, then it’s certainly because there’s a preference for this style. Mosel Fine Wines indicated 2025-35.
I’m tracking it over three days so I might give a little comment tonight, should it show drastically different, but I much prefer it on the opening day after a decant.
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NV Lukas Hammelmann Spätburgunder Blanc de Noir Extra Brut
Ordered a bottle at Pops for Champagne. An Pfalz estate was started in 2016. This is 100% Pinot Noir from limestone soils around Hochstadt in the Pfalz region. Zero dosage. Disgorged February 2025. His first release of a sparkling wine was in 2022. I had read some very good things about this wine but was disappointed. The main problem was the very low bead in this wine. The bubbles dissipated within a minute, and the wine came off as rather flat tasting. The fruit was nice with apple and a touch of licorice. A slightly salty finish. 82 points.
VM
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Just went to a tasting event of German wine and my favorite findings were Meyer-Nakel Spatburgunder. I’ve had Spatburgunder from a few famous producers including Ziereisen and Bernard Huber before, but this is the first time I really liked German Spatburgunder. I was particularly shocked to learn their Blauschiefer Dernauer is a $30 bottle in Europe. It costs $50 in a market I buy in but it is still one of the best values for Pinot Noir to my taste.
Now I’m interested in exploring Spatburgunder a bit more. I think I have a bottle of Rudolf Furst so I’ll open it at some point, but any particular producers that may be close to M-N stylistically?
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I had a similarly disappointing experience off the list at Lei.
Had a nice pair of 2021 Thörle Probstey Spätburgunder and 2021 Thörle Hölle Spätburgunder. Both delicious, ripe, fleshy but also focused and fresh. The Probstey is more linear and earthy. A nice wine but not the best. The Hölle is the superstar, luscious and spherical yet silky elegant and crystal clear. Unfortunately I didn’t love a recent bottle of the 2022 Hölle, seemed so backwards, but the 2021 gives me hope!
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I only recall having one (not sure which bottling) of M-N that was mildly corked and can unfortunately not give any good direction. Maybe worth trying a few other Ahr valley wineries like Bertram Baltes (have been intending to try their wines myself)?
Maybe you took it into consideration but for Ziereisen my experience is that they need quite a bit of air to show at their best. Usually things really start falling in place from day 2.
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Last night at eme in Paris, a couple next to us poured a Dennis Wolf - Spätburgunder 2020.
Very clear viscosity and medium ruby color.
Incredibly perfumed nose of beetroot, rosehip, thyme and rosemary. Mouth is predominantly redcurrant and underripe cherries, but not in the shrill direction. Pretty lovely. 93Pts
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In Bürgstadt, a young couple is starting to produce Pinot Noir, but I don’t know if a wine has been released yet. One of them helped during the 2021 harvest at Hofgut Falkenstein.
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Last night at Ilis (Stunning meal by the way) I spotted two Enderle Pinots. I asked the somm if he had any recent experience with them and which one was “cleaner.” He admitted to not having any experience with either wine. I chose the 2022 Kalk. He brought over a taste and said I think it is too funky. I took a sip and other than a little natural wine zip it tasted very clean. 10 minutes later it was just incredible, soaring aromatics, deep precise fruit, elegant, lively, exciting. Everyone at the table loved it and the somm was extremely impressed with the wine. So happy to see Sven making great wine again.
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I love the Bertram Baltes wines but I will caution they straddle the line of under-ripeness. Start with one of the entry level cuvees first to see if you like them. The high end ones, at least in the U.S., are expensive.
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Thanks for the suggestion. For Ziereisen, I drank it over a week so probably not that it was “closed” but the example I had recently (Rhini 2020) had a little too much whole cluster characters to me. It was still a good wine and I don’t even know if the bottle represented producer’s style, so I’ll definitely try more bottles of Ziereisen, though.
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