The clones are from the Jura. I thought it was very good. The bottom photo is the flor.
3 Likes
Does anyone know of a wine shop in NJ that carries a selection of German Chardonnay?
@Andrew_Hall - Lyle also offered the '21 âReserveâ. I find it enjoyable but nowhere near the top tier Germans. If he ever offers the KĂŒhling-Gillot again, snag it!
1 Like
Unfortunately you have to hunt for these as they are not widely available in the USA.
Some producers to look for:
Holger Koch (Baden)
Lukas Hammelmann (Pfalz)
Seckinger (Pfalz)
FĂŒrst (Franken)
Saalwachter (Rheinhessen)
Dönnhoff (Nahe)
Keller (Rheinhessen)
Makalie (Baden)
Ziereisen (Baden)
Salway (Baden)
Jonas Dostert (Obermosel), natural leaning
2 Likes
Now that you mention MakaliĂ©, I will just state that I really didnât like their Chardonnay. Felt overly fruity and floral, even in 2021⊠big fan of their SpĂ€tburgunder, but the Chardonnay didnât work for me.
Thatâs a good point. While I enjoyed drinking Jonas Dostertâs 2022 Chardonnay, it does lean towards the natural camp. That said, Iâm a fan of his.
To highlight just how incredibly inaccessible these wines are âŠ
I just searched the online inventory for the following wine stores in Southern California, each of which is a legitimately excellent brick and mortar retailer:
Wine House
Wine Exchange
Woodland Hills Wine Company
K&L Wines
and exactly ZERO German Chardonnay selections at those above four combined, and itâs not exactly like these stores are servicing rural communities, unless you consider Los Angeles a rural community.
This will change in due course. As I said in my original post I feel we are at where SpĂ€tburgunder was 5-10 years ago. I did notice that Chambers had one German Chard in yesterdayâs offer and it sold out fast, in fact it was the only wine that sold out. Wonder if some berserkers / lurkers bought some!
1 Like
I am a huge fan of everything he does. I had the 22 Elbling yesterday. 10% abv. Just absolutely stunning!
That might be a touch optimistic. SpĂ€tburgunder has been Germanyâs main red grape for a long time (planting back 1000 years). I donât think Chardonnay was even legal in Germany until the 1990s! (Some German wine historians can fill in the specifics here, there were technicalities and exceptions)
Yes, there is a new wave of energy around Chardonnay. But thatâs been building around SpĂ€tburgunder for a while, and we know things move slowly as vines need age.
But you are probably right that the future will only be more and more interesting for German Chardonnay.
1 Like
Well I am an eternal optimist 
The major reasons that I think Chardonnay will have a quicker ramp than SpÀtburgunder is that they are already very good and fairly priced. 10 years ago the SpÀtburgunders that came to the U.S. were either not very good and/or highly priced.
Yes, the price issue could be interesting. And of course past performance is no guarantee of future trajectory, so no reason Chardonnay has to follow the SpÀtburgunder path.
Also worth noting that âwines that come to the USâ are not necessarily reflective of a countryâs wine scene.
Rudolf FĂŒrstâs 2022 Chardonnay R and Bernhard Huberâs 2021 Bienenberg GG retail for 82 and 84 euros in Germany, respectively.
Franz Kellerâs 2021 Kirchberg GG retails for 70 euros.
German Chardonnays cost anywhere from 13 to 130 euros a bottle; the more expensive wines would be higher priced in the States.
Other producers of German Chardonnay not mentioned above include Aldinger, Bernhard Koch, Dautel, Wittmann, Markus Molitor, Dr. Heger, JĂŒlg, Salwey, Wöhrle, Martin WaĂmer, Richard Ăstreicher, Dr. Wehrheim, Karsten Peter, Alexander Laible, Philipp KĂŒhn, Knewitz, Knipser, and Rebholz.
Considering producers like FĂŒrst and Huber are established top producers those prices are not bad.
I just picked up some 2020 Seckinger Pur R for $30. I first had this next to a Premier Cru white Burg.
The wine was significantly better than the Burg thar was 3-4x the cost.
5 Likes
Yes, I agree. But I just wanted to point out a few prices and list other producers.
No mention of Renard? Pretty rare I suppose.
I am not getting as excited about ânew chardoâ and I did (do) about ânew spatburgunderâ, I am trying to think why - and on the whole its possibly because its not so distinctively different.
Not to say its not exciting!
Keller (KP + Felix) 78
WongAmat 60
Good luck finding any âŠ
1 Like
Do you get as excited by Chardonnay/White Burgundy in general as you do by Pinot Noir/Red Burgundy?
I havenât gone through any extensive German Chardonnay tastings, but Iâve not yet been convinced that they are something for me to follow as closely as the Rieslings, or the Weissburgunders, or the Sylvaners, or even the Grauburgunders. Thereâs a long list of German white wines, not to mention white wines from other countries competing for my (limited) attentionâŠ
2 Likes
Well, I think your test mostly proves that thereâs quite a bit of overpriced white Burgundy in the market, which I donât think is a contentious statement! As a producer said to me, itâs easy to make good Chardonnay in Burgundy, but hard to make great Burgundy. I agree, but I also think itâs easy to make very mediocre Chardonnay in Burgundy that sells for a lot more money than Chardonnay from just about anywhere else. That Chardonnay will seem a bargain by comparison, especially since itâs likely to be made in places like Germany by producers genuinely interested in the grape - you have to be a bit of a forward thinking winemaker to plant Chardonnay in Germany rather than stick with whatâs been done for centuries (and, of course, look towards Burgundy).
I expect, like Oregon and cooler parts of California, New Zealand and other parts of the world German Chardonnays will be better QPR than an average bottle of white Burgundy fairly quickly*, but itâs not clear to me when/if theyâll get to a higher level; thatâs the difficult question thatâs hard to answer and depends on all that terroir nonsense 
I just donât know, but Iâm curious to find out - I certainly donât doubt the quality of some of the winemakers trying their hand at it. On their merits, Iâve found the Dostert and Keller Chardonnays solid, so far and am curious to see where they (and others) go from here.
*I sometimes wonder where the oceans of all those nameless bottles of Burgundy go, and then I visit my parents and see Maison Chanzy and Domaine Chanson as the two bottles of red Burgundy on a list.
2 Likes
For all the reasons the OP mentioned, Germany should be a good place to grow chardonnay, especially on the leaner, brighter and less textural side. Just not sure if there is quite enough sun/heat to creep up to world class chard level. Time will tell!
1 Like