Forget 2007 CdP; Bob P falls for 2009 Bordeaux

J_Nemanick · March 2, 2012, 2:31am

Ok. Sorry I misunderstood.

Jeff

Andrew_L · March 2, 2012, 3:06am

Yes, L’Evangile too. There is also one white 100 pointer as well: Pape Clement Blanc.

Chris_S_p_i_k_e_s · March 2, 2012, 3:08am

Are the rest of the scores out yet, or only the 100 pointers?

Chris

Bruce_Leiser_owitz · March 2, 2012, 3:10am

Oh-Kay…at the recent UGC tasting, IIRC I tried the Clinet, Clos Fourtet, Leoville Poyferre, Pontet Canet, and Smith Haut Lafitte among others. While the Clinet was at the top of the heap that night, I would not have considered any of those five wines to be 100 point/“perfect” wines. Clearly I was tasting something very, very different…

Bruce

Benjamin_Sullivan_DNA · March 2, 2012, 3:43am

Glad I bought the Poyferre on futures, but honestly I would not care if it got a 100 points or not - Poyferre is always good juice!

Keith_Levenberg · March 2, 2012, 4:09am

Who cares about any of the 99-point crap?

Mike_J_ewesson · March 2, 2012, 4:10am

Chris Seiber:

Mike J ewesson:

Chris Seiber:

I’ve never been one to engage in the WB vs. eBob forum sniping, but it’s pretty startling to read the thread on this over there. Everyone peppering the people who got the print copy for numerical Bordeaux ratings, and hooting and high fiving each other for high scores (mostly on things they bought already – not sure if they just are stoked over the validation of their purchase or if they are hoping to profit on flipping, but I think mostly the former).

I actually (harkening back to the Wine Geek Confessional thread) think that professional ratings and reviews can be helpful in finding wines to try in some circumstances, and I’ve never accused people of being “score whores” or any such thing, but if there were ever a case where that shoe fits, you’d find it in that thread.

I think your being a little harsh in your assessment. I did not take a large 2009 position, but if I did, I would be extremely happy to know that my decision to buy before the scores came out was a wise one (assuming that buying 2009 BDX at all is wise). I think there was a lot of doubt about whether the 2009 prices would hold up or whether they would immediately drop after the scores came out. If they go up, you just saved yourself a ton of money. If they were to go down, you just overpaid. I am sure there are a few pure point whores and flippers, but scores have an impact on those that are not also.

If you bought a case of Pontet Canet last month for personal consumption (and not for flipping), what difference does it make to you that it got 100 points versus 97 points, or whether the price to buy it tomorrow is more, less or the same as what you paid?

You say “If they go up, you just saved yourself a ton of money. If they were to go down, you just overpaid.” Didn’t you pay the exact same amount for the exact same wine regardless of whether the price went up or down today? I don’t see how you’re any different off.

Now, I’m not that totally rational – I understand the sensation of patting one’s self on the back for having bought before the price went up or kicking one’s self for having bought before the price dropped, even if it doesn’t actually affect what you have or what you paid for it. Maybe that’s what all that celebration is about, and I guess I shouldn’t judge.

In your example, if it gets 97 points instead of 100 you may have just discovered you overpaid for PC when the score comes out. If you hadn’t bought, you could have gone about using your money to buy other things (like other wine the price of which you expect to rise in the future) and wait to purchase the PC in the future for the 2/29/2012 price or less. There is tons of it and the price will likely drop, especially considering the amount of 97+ pt. 2009 BDX wines that were cheaper.

Consider the alternative, you decided not to buy the PC on 2/29/2012 with the thought it was overpriced and will drop after the scores come out. You use that money to buy other wine or something else that you want and expect to buy it when it’s cheaper. ruh-roh…on 3/1 it gets 100 points. By not buying on 2/29 you just cost yourself a bunch of money…or you go without.

Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m · March 2, 2012, 4:12am

You weren’t tasting anything different, you’re just wrong.

Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m · March 2, 2012, 4:13am

an '88 Poyferre was my WOTN at a Bdx. offline last weekend; it was delicious, and still young.

jordan_whitehead · March 2, 2012, 5:34am

09 Troplong Mondot

RP 99 pts

NM 89

discuss

Bob_Wood · March 2, 2012, 5:40am

Bad candidate for flipping if it’s an 89.

ToddFrench · March 2, 2012, 5:41am

The Grape Radio podcast is particularly fitting with this thread. Now my frustration is more obvious.

Interesting to get notes form this community on all these ‘perfect’ wines - UGC Noo Yawk Bordeaux 2009 vintage release tasting. - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

Fred_C · March 2, 2012, 6:02am

These scores are nothing new. I bought the 2009 Pontet Canet en primeur. He had rated it 98-100. I bought a few at $149 and quickly watched it jump to $199 in a few weeks. I was going to say I don’t see this 5th growth going to 300+ per bottle. But I just checked KL and they just sold out the rest of their 2009 PC after pretty much zero movement over the past several months. It’s already starting…

Bad move to buy at this point especially with 2010 also sitting at 97-100 for $179 IMO but then again, what the hell do I know. Guess I don’t get to drink this wine either and I’ll be forced to flip this also…

Carl_Steefel · March 2, 2012, 6:05am

Good move if you got it for a good price. I see Premier Cru (who is showing the RP notes) is now selling it for $200.

I do like Parker’s line about the 2009 Pontet Canet “Black as a moonless night, …”

Also glad to see Beausejour Duffau made it. A long wait from 1990…

Carl_Steefel · March 2, 2012, 6:08am

Don’t scoff. I had no trouble flipping my 100 point Quilceda Creeks at Premier Cru. When I offered them my 99 pointer (after tasting a QC at a dinner and deciding that it really was not my style of wine), no interest whatsover…

jcoley3 · March 2, 2012, 7:46am

Paul, you have my early nod for post of the year.

I tasted both wines at UGC Chicago, and, while both were very good (I think I even ordered Clos Fourtet, as I often like the wine), I don’t think either would crack my “top 1000 wines of my life so far” list, much less vie for perfection. That said, I have not had them from large format with raw fish, so I could be wrong.

jcoley3 · March 2, 2012, 7:49am

+1. I really liked all those wines, and even purchased a few for sale after tasting at UGC Chicago, but perfect? Perfect means something almost otherworldly, and these wines, while great, did not hit those heights.

Thomas_De_Waen · March 2, 2012, 9:28am

So does that mean that all these wines will, one day, be as special as a 1945 RC or Mouton, or 1961 Latour, Palmer or La Chapelle?

Also, I did find the AG burg ratings a bit weird - though at least he’s not affraid to voice his opinions!

Andrew_L · March 2, 2012, 10:45am

Different strokes for different folks…same as 2009 Cos D’Estournel; RP100, NM90.

Neal.Mollen · March 2, 2012, 12:45pm

Which, it seems to me, has to be a mark in Parker’s favor. For all the criticism heaped upon him (much of it self-inflicted, it has to be said), he has worked, successfully, to diversify the voices heard at TWA. I find that refreshing. I will also say that my hit rate for bdx wines that both enjoy is nearly 100%. In the recent issue, for example, I have great confidence in the Domaine de Chevalier, about which both were enthusiastic.