Foreign restaurant wine lists with Calif. wines

[GaryShull]

Geranium is probably the best wine list I’ve ever seen in a restaurant. And the food and service are absolutely top notch. Well deserved #2 restaurant in the world.

Imagine: 30(!) vintages of Dominus, 11 of Sine Qua Non and 14 of Screaming Eagle including a magnum of the '92. Mind boggling.

How much for the chopper ride?

[Chris_Crutchfield]

Sometimes it seems like US wines are like German wines - the local population is prosperous enough to gobble up all the high end wines, so they don’t ‘need’ the export markets the way other nations might.

Hmm, it may be some of that, but I would argue there just isn’t that much demand for American wines, particularly at their price points. I wonder whether the people ordering American wines off the list at this restaurant are primarily European or non-European tourists…

[Arv_R]

Sometimes it seems like US wines are like German wines - the local population is prosperous enough to gobble up all the high end wines, so they don’t ‘need’ the export markets the way other nations might.

Hmm, it may be some of that, but I would argue there just isn’t that much demand for American wines, particularly at their price points. I wonder whether the people ordering American wines off the list at this restaurant are primarily European or non-European tourists…

It’s likely just way more profitable for a (high end) US winery to sell DTC and not worry about whether they are getting placement in global Michelin high stars and dealing with exporters.

[J_Slawney]

We gave noticed that, basically, for Noma, only people on their Email list can get reasonable bookings, the public is sort of shut out: it has “gone private.” Is this the same for Geranium? (Asking for a friend.) Also, as an aside, while French and Italian and US wines are well chosen and stocked at Geranium, there are some real puzzling aspects in their selection of German and Austrian wines: sure there is sufficient selection of Keller (at premium prices), but no sweet wines from Robert Weil, many top producers from Pfalz not represented, etc. I could go on about this for a while.

[Jon_Lawrence]

I wonder how they price the bottles that say 'Rarity" like '76 Jayer. Although I guess if you have to ask, you can’t afford it anyways.

Go to page 142 for the prices on the ‘rarities’. The '76 Jayer is ~$21,500. Most expensive is the SE '92 mag at ~$65,000.

Proves me right that if I have to ask, I can’t afford it!

[Jon_Lawrence]

I’m sure it’s very costly to import US wines, but hard to justify picking them over other wines at the same price.

For 6000 DKR ($935), you can drink:
1995 Ridge Monte Bello
2013 Shafer HSS
2011 Dalla Valle Maya

Or you can drink Rayas, pick any vintage from 01, 04, 06, 07, 08.

I guess if you’re European, you probably have way more access to Rayas than Shafer HSS, but in the US, Shafer HSS goes for ~$300 on the secondary market, whereas 2007 Rayas has been hammering close to $1500.

I think you found the value reds on the list.

Rayas saved the day for me in a fancy French restaurant years ago. My wife and I were at Guy Savoy in Paris in 2010 and I found myself struggling to find wines that we could afford and enjoy. Just as an example, the price for each of the '00 first growths were 5k Euros which was about $6500 US back then. For some reason, the '05 Rayas was only 500 Euros and that is what we drank along with a bottle of '96 Billecart Salmon Elisabeth Salmon that was also priced at 500 Euros.

[CJ_Beazley]

Is it unusual to see this disclaimer on the ‘captains list’?
“Dear Guest
The rarity wines are to be considered as auction items and antiqueties. The wines are served at your own risk. If the wines are faulty, there will be no discount or changing of bottles.”

[Dan_Kravitz]

Hey, 1998 Corison ‘Kronos’ is barely $1000. OTOH, it’s a really miserable vintage. But with smart shopping there are wines with bottle age and prices not out of line.

Dan Kravitz

[Peter_Z]

To put all in perspective: Don’t forget there is already 25% VAT included in these prices, plus tips in Europe are not at levels seen in the USA.
And indeed, if you’re lucky you can find Rayas cheaper than Shafer HSS in Europe. Not too long ago I picked up a bottle of 2007 Rayas at 270 Euro in a French store, whereas HSS is typically over 300 Euro (with best option to find US wines is actually in Germany).

[J_Slawney]

(with best option to find US wines is actually in Germany).

Yes, a friend of mine imports and distributes US wines in Germany with a passion. He also advocates them to German gourmet restaurants. That is why you will see alot of Sandhi whites (and some amazing Napa) on Michelin-level wine lists in Germany.

[Andy_Sc]

I guess if you’re European, you probably have way more access to Rayas than Shafer HSS, but in the US, Shafer HSS goes for ~$300 on the secondary market, whereas 2007 Rayas has been hammering close to $1500.

Shafer HSS is widely available in Europe. Rayas is the rarity you get one or max a few bottles allocated (if you are a longstanding and good client). But it is true, that again and again you find Rayas on top notch restaurant wine lists, usually below retail price (which is more a reflection of the crazy price development of Rayas in recent years and the restaurants not keeping up with that, than of the restaurants trying to give a good deal).