For those into Greek wine: Nico Manessis' website !

http://www.greekwineworld.com/

Tom Stevenson:

I thought that Greek wine was an easy learn, but Nico has shown me that it is far more complex and I have had to work harder to keep up. Nico has constantly and consistently kept me informed about what is going on, who are the underperformers, who are at the top of their game, and who are the new kids on the block. It is far more exciting than I ever imagined since I first visited Greek vineyards in the early 1980’s. The Greek wine industry should be very grateful to Nico Manessis for getting the word out to the rest of the world.

http://allaboutgreekwine.com/media.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I’m a big fan of Greek wines, especially the whites from Santorini, and the vinsantos that are virtually impossible to find outside of Greece. Thanks for the link.

Duly noted Richard: while surfing on eBob last year after the Wines from Greece tasting in NYC, I stumbled across your impressive TNs from a similar event:

http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/showthread.php?t=131590&highlight=greek" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you for those TNs!

Mmmmm, Retsina…

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Last year, I made two trips to Cyprus for family stuff. I raided numerous wine shops and avoided family by going through a number of Greek (and Cypriote) wines. Lots of whatever wines. Lots of international crap. A few really interesting ones. The highlight was me running through the house, pointing at a glass and shouting with a big smile, “There is no fruit in this wine. There is NO FRUIT in this wine.”

With no small conceit, I think my notes are particularly of note since these were all bottles purchased and I tasted each them across at least a night if not a couple days. There is very little out there with that kind of depth.

GREEK WINES - (1/19/2008-6/10/2009)

This is the sequel to my previous foray into Greek wines.
The Best

  • 2006 Avantis Ayios Chronos - Greece, Peloponnisos, Nemea (5/26/2008)
    Started off with a closed nose, some meaty elements and a reticent floral. Opened after hour+ with dark fruits, a little latex and clove-y spices. Tea elemets on the palate. Very tannic and direct even at one hr. Definite Rhone-esque elements, maybe even young Rotie. Evolved longer with variations of meat, jasmine-like florals and steady dark fruits. Last bit showed a progression to lighter body, nice acids and a lacey structure. Very, very good and excellent with souvla

It will be interesting to see if this goes in 5-10 yrs on a continued Rhone-esque vibe or takes it starting material and molds it to a more specific and local expression.

Inserted bonus. I bought two bottles and one got lost in luggage for a couple days :

  • 2006 Avantis Ayios Chronos - Greece, Peloponnisos, Nemea (5/3/2009)
    Greek Wines; 1/19/2008-6/10/2009: (From bottle lost a couple days in luggage) Blowsy and almost ostenatious nose with floral underpinning and big fruit. Loosely knit, but very consistent with notes of a year ago. Very enjoyable.
    Posted from CellarTracker

  • 2003 Domaine Porto Carras Limnio - Greece, Macedonia, Sithonia, Côtes de Meliton (5/30/2008)
    Light colour. Plums and pollen on the nose with some rust and blood. Dusty tannins, slightly rusty edge. Pinot-like attenuated fruit with mossy elements. Nice persistence with a mineral edge, wood mushroom and Brie-rind textures. Just yum-tastic and really rang my bell.

  • 2004 Triados of Jagarolon Trebbiano - Greece, Crete (6/2/2008)
    Nose right out of the glass with varnish, curing salts, tofu skin and dried Provencal herbs. Blast of agressive shellac notes, briny oysters and the taste your hands transmit to your mouth when you work with really resinous wood - a feeling as much as a taste. This is Lispida/Amphora territory with all sorts of dark side elements, a bare nod to fruit and the steely resolve of a dominatrix to give you no quarter - and no safe word. Just awesome.



    Whites

  • 2007 Domaine Porto Carras Athiri - Greece, Macedonia, Sithonia (5/30/2008)
    Slight sulfur or hot-springs water on the nose. A little fizz in it too. Straw colour. Bitter almonds and charred eggplant notes - that specific. Requires a good chill to keep the strong elements from running roughshod on the light body, medium acids and soft texture. This was pretty cool when it stayed integrated. Gained in thickness over time and delivered more obvious pleasures at a sacrifice of the outre elements.

  • 2005 Hatzidakis Winery - Greece, Aegean, Santorini (6/2/2008)
    Soft nose with grapefruit and lanolin. Tight fruit with intense citrus peels and tea-like bite. Solid blocking, but this screams out for food to handle its edges. Good finish with a nice drop and an oily effect.

  • 2006 Domaine Hatzimichalis Robola Ambelon Veriki - Greece, Attica, Atalanti Valley (5/31/2008)
    Latex on the nose. Citrus, light acids, mineral water and orange flower. Short finish with more latex. Developed a slight thicker aspect with time and a bit too soft body and hollow middle. Flavor aspects though compensated. Interesting wine overall, nice having only 12% alcohol. I liked it, but have to admit the overall lack of a structure made it fail to resonate with me.

  • 2007 Chrisohoou Xinomavro Aspro apo Mavro - Greece, Macedonia, Vin de Pays d’Imathia (6/6/2008)
    Took a while for nose and palate to evolve into something perceptible. Slate and rust on the nose. A slight thickness on the palate with lemon, Rainer cherries and slight sherbet-y feeling. Some leather notes very faint. Nice balance, more mineral elements peek out on the finish. Interesting wine as shadow elements of Xino red flit in and out, but the central core and style is very much Chablis-esque.

  • 2005 Chrisohoou Prekniáriko - Greece, Macedonia (6/4/2008)
    Reticent nose. Some dried apricot and Tang. Nice body with rounded edges, mineral lattice and a weight to it. Long finish, a bit confected and creamy, but dries down to to some really nice mineral/lacquer notes. Lots of stuff I like here, but some of the cream and an intrusive vanilla is taking it from me. If I read the Greek right - and I did - six mos in oak and I would like to taste this variety naked.

  • 2005 Santo Wines Nykteri Reserve - Greece, Aegean, Santorini (6/3/2008)
    Balsam wood on the nose with incense rifts. Almost annoyingly plush texture. Feeling of the freshness drop from the more complicated treatement for which the additional complexity almost compensates. Bitters and lemon peel with nice fresh lemon squash effect. Gains some weight over time and the edges get more defined for a bettering. A good quality of wine, but it just didn’t resonate with me.

  • 2007 Avantis Malagousia Drios - Greece (6/3/2008)
    Loads of florals and perfume base. A well-rounded nose. A bit thick on the tongue. Very floral and lush with a really charming lack of delicacy to the palette range. Slightly sweet feeling in the core which plays off bitters and tonic notes. Playful, faux complexity - a very coquette wine which is too rare. Really pretty and good stuff.

  • 2007 Domaine Hatzimichalis Leukos - Greece, Attica, Parnassou (5/25/2008)
    Not much nose, faint match stick. Soft acids, slight mineral creaminess. Slight thickness with little penetration. Slight is a good descriptor across the board for this wine. Nice and average white.

  • 2007 Ktima Techni Oinou Alipias - Greece, Macedonia, Drama (5/27/2008)
    Nice hay and seed nose. Crisp and acidic. Clean finish. Not complex, but complete. Perfect w/ Greek nibbles, especially the marinated cuttlefish.

  • 2007 Ktima Techni Oinou Alipias - Greece, Macedonia, Drama (5/27/2008)
    Lactic and cheese on the nose. Some strawberry and rosehips, but too thick and creamy to be held by the weak acids and structure. Blah.

Reds

  • 2006 Gaia Estate S - Greece, Peloponnisos, Nemea (5/26/2008)
    Alcohol and port on the nose - and that is it. Eventually gave some raspberry fruit with mocha and sandalwood-y spice. Starts off with sweet oak-ey notes, malic texture and soft, persistent tannins. Nice fruit in there with some mineral and grip, but hidden behind slickness and spoof. Good structure which makes this nice with souvla, but gets soft very fast. Modern and a marketing intern’s wine.
  • 2004 Antonopoulos Vineyards Antonopoulos Collection Achaia - Greece, Peloponnisos, Achaia (6/1/2008)
    Cherry and yeast on the nose. Extraction and that yeasty/incipient oxidation feeling. Nice weight to the body and some good cherry fruit with a tarry backing is the upside. Merlot blahs. Short finish with no grip. Too soft and just a very uninteresting example of dull technical wine making.
  • 2004 Biblia Chora Ovilos - Greece, Macedonia, Pangeon (5/31/2008)
    Spicy big and Cabby right off the gates and that was just the nose. Chewy tannins. Clean, young and really punchy. Laves fruit on the palate holding an oak spice with a decent level of integration. Lighter body than one would expect from the nose and colour. Holds a vibe not unlike Cali cabs before the arms race into extracted hell. But, this was also slick and not very Greek. I did like the good lines and styling though.
  • 2003 Domaine Gerovassiliou Avaton - Greece, Macedonia, Epanomi (5/31/2008)
    Sticky spot on the top of the cork and a long seam stained red along the cork. Tasted tired and dull. Will try another bottle. NR (flawed)
  • 2004 Tamiolakis Erythros - Greece, Crete, Peza-Iraklion (5/31/2008)
    Light funk nose with tofu elements. Feisty acids and a very rustic cut. Grippy in the middle with slightly unripe red currants. Good push, but a short finish. Like the rusticity and lack of polish here. Evolved very well with the fruits gaining weight and plushnes and a middle filling out with cedar bark and Campari elements. A kind of tonic feel tapering down with the velvet fruits and eased tannins. Really good stuff.
  • 2003 Domaine Gerovassiliou Avaton - Greece, Macedonia, Epanomi (6/4/2008)
    Toasty and vanilla notes backing fruit and leather on the nose. Top note tannins and bite with apparent oak. Settled into something very modern and styled in the body. Enjoyable enough with an acceptable balance and some nice acids. Has some idiosyncratic moments where some cedar, tart berries and mineral peaks out, but the overall package is thoroughly modern and placeless.
  • 2001 Chrisohoou Cava - Greece, Macedonia, Vin de Pays d’Imathia (6/6/2008)
    Tarry elements on the nose with usual Xino raspy notes. Tart cherries inside a very nice structure and body. Pushes well, but short finish. Nice elements of bricks, mineral and red currants develop. Then it fell apart rather abruptly into a disjointed and very unstructured mess. Never pulled back. (The 00 Estate held together much better.)
  • 2005 Avantis (Mountrihas) Petite Sirah - Greece, Peloponnisos, Nemea (6/3/2008)
    Jammy fruit straight up on the nose. Berries, oak vanilla and black pepper. Follows true on the palate with bruising power and sloppiness. Lots of tannins and extract give this wine clumsy weight. In other words, all very P.S. Wine never achieves harmony before getting very blobby. Overall effect was more pleasing than the components summed above, so I guess I was in a good mood.
  • 2004 Elias Bizios Cabernet Sauvignon - Agiorgitiko - Greece, Peloponnisos (5/25/2008)
    Slight oxidative furnace nose and not much else. Very pretty tart (and fresh) cherry juice w/ a faint wintergreen backing. A cute wine. Started to disassemble very quickly w/ sour notes that felt oak-based. Tasted old in short order.
  • 2002 Domaine Mercouri Cava - Greece, Peloponnisos, Vin de Pays des Letrinon (5/25/2008)
    Slight orange hue to the colour. Smoke and ash on the nose. Nifty, funky fruit off the top. Slight lift like effervesence, though none visible. (Disappeared after a bit.) Sateen texture. Soft precise acids. Leather and fougere. Gamey, medium finish which pushed into insect notes at times. Cool stuff that I liked.

Append : Definite spritz in there as there was a distinct thoomp! when I opened the re-sealed bottled. Day 2 emphasized the fougere and rounded the edges. Still quite good.

  • 2004 Ktima Pavlidis Tempranillo - Greece, Macedonia, Drama (6/3/2008)
    Slightly musty and leather nose with some brick. Plenty of cherry fruit. Big body with a fair amount of finesse, but too obvious power. Nice tannins/acid/fruit harmony. Some spice and mocha. Nice finish with a good tapering. Ribeiro-like in a good way of quality, but not so good in that I expected more identity. Nice on its own merits though.
  • 2004 Palivou Estate Terra Leone Ammos - Greece, Peloponnisos, Nemea (6/3/2008)
    Big nose with jammy fruits, smoke and mocha. Very plush texture with more fruit, aromatic spices and tobacco. Long finish with a slightly sweet core and more fruit. Very slick and styled. Well-layered and enjoyable, but also could be from anywhere.

Dessert

  • 2005 Palivou Estate Muscat Terra Leone Iliou Techni - Greece, Peloponnisos, Nemea (5/26/2008)
    Honey-floral nose, soft and subtle. Slick on the palate and lacking some acidity, but a very nice persistence with orange peel and flowers, honey and a little fennel pollen. Makes you reach to it, but a good dessert wine.

  • 2005 Domaine Mercouri Belvedere - Greece, Peloponnisos (6/1/2008)
    Honey and Earl Grey tea nose. Musky flowers too. Slight sweetness upfront and then a dominant waxy, bitter note like a orange marmalade in effect. Small acids. Really odd cut and pitch to this wine as almost Dutch cocoa notes cut in combined with wierd fruits. A mystery and not one that is really delivering much pleasure right off. Time gives some depth and a roundness to the elements. I think a nutty biscotti would do the trick here instead of drinking this alone.

  • 2000 Domaine Mercouri Chortais - Greece, Peloponnisos, Vin de Pays des Letrinon (5/30/2008)
    Plummy nose with some Greek coffee and candy notes. Sweet and sticky on the tongue. Definite heat. Very much like a Banyuls w/o the depth or complexity. Medium finish with more coffee sweetness and slight caramel. Disappointing given the price.



    Some extras

  • 2004 Domaine Karydas Xinomavro - Greece, Macedonia, Naoussa (2/22/2008)
    Slight dusky hue to the colour. Funky nose with some rust and gear-grinding smells. Acids predominant with the raspy Xino texture and nectarine skin fruits at the end. A bit of tar and mineral. Lots of structural elements which rounded out in the glass. Picked up concentration as well. Definitely not for everyone, but I liked it.

  • 2005 Lafazanis Agiorgitiko St. George - Greece, Peloponnisos (4/22/2008)
    Plummy and soft. Definite toast and vanilla notes right on the opening. Doesn’t really hold together in a coherent fashion and not very interesting.

  • 2006 Avantis Ayios Chronos - Greece, Peloponnisos, Nemea (5/3/2009)
    (From bottle lost a couple days in luggage) Blowsy and almost ostenatious nose with floral underpinning and big fruit. Loosely knit, but very consistent with notes of a year ago. Very enjoyable.





    Posted from CellarTracker

GREEK WINES - (12/19/2007-1/5/2008)

Summary of Greek wines purchased in Cyprus.

  • 2004 Alpha Estate Xinomavro - Greece, Macedonia, Amyndeon (12/21/2007)
    Complex nose with tight berry fruits, bitters and slight metallic/brine. Lots of tart currants - this is not a wine for aceto-phobes - with mineral notes and some stemminess. Nice length, good body and structure. Carves out a nice piece of itself.
  • 2005 Alpha Estate - Greece, Macedonia, Amyndeon (12/26/2007)
    Nice nose of cherries and leather. Some alcohol intrudes. Dark and brooding to approach. Broad international styling rescued by a component of Xinomavro whose acidic and dusty nature flows through. Balanced, some good backing notes. Nice finish. Good to drink, but over time it became more generic. By no means a bad wine, but I would hope for something more distinct. May come with time, but Alpha’s 100% Xinomavro shows more promise.


  • 2007 Domaine Gerovassiliou - Greece, Macedonia, Epanomi (12/22/2007)
    Delightful. Grassy, minerally and citrus blossom on the nose. Bright acidity with a soft finish and loads of mineral and straw. Clean, well-delineated, very intense and a nice vibrato going on. Great stuff.
  • 2004 Domaine Gerovassiliou Syrah - Greece, Macedonia, Epanomi (12/28/2007)
    Not particularly noteworthy. Well made and nothing wrong here, but just nice Syrah-y fruit and not a lot more. Didn’t gain complexity or depth with time. Solid enough and a good body to make for nice drinking and that can be enough.
  • 2003 Domaine Gerovassiliou - Greece, Macedonia, Epanomi (1/1/2008)
    Sickly fruit, oak and confected nose. Raw and torqued fruit all over the place. Time produced a gakky mess.


  • 2001 Tsantali Epilegmenos Rapsani - Greece, Thessaly, Rapsani (12/23/2007)
    Dark. Extracted nose with balsam notes and oak-backing. Dark fruits, more oak and tinned grape juice. Soda pop elements as well with glycerin. Despite being made from Grecian-varieties, this is firmly in the trans-global style of red and has crested as well. NB - “Epilegmenos” is Greek for “Reserve” (literally ‘selected’).
  • 2004 Tsantali Rapsani - Greece (12/23/2007)
    Heavy aromas of reduction, old ash-tray and other unpleasant things. Similar flavours, dominated by the old-ashtray. Not good.


  • 2006 Kir-Yianni Samaropetra - Greece, Macedonia, Vin de Pays Florina (12/25/2007)
    Pretty aromatics of iodine, peach and Chanel 5. Followthrough on the palate a little weak. Light body, nice persistence. Lifting acids and a soft core. Nice aperitif and very clean.
  • 2005 Kir-Yianni Paranga - Greece, Macedonia (12/28/2007)
    Nice well-rounded and solid. Upfront dark fruits with a bit of pepper. Good body. Short finish which expanded upon being open for 30 min into a nice weight and a slight gaminess. Nice quality here.


  • 2004 Estate Papaioannou Agiorgitiko - Greece, Peloponnisos, Nemea (1/1/2008)
    Tight, tight nose with nothing. Strong structure, correct and linear. Good fruit and body. Time gave a slightly drawn wine with spicy fruits and a leathery texture element. Some coffee on the finish in a somewhat abrupt way. Nice things going on.

Chrisohoou is the 2nd largest estate in Naousa, behind Boutari. They also produce a white from Xinomavro (Aspro apo Mavro) which I purchased, but haven’t tried yet.

Bonus : I bought a bottle and tried it.

  • 2007 Chrisohoou Xinomavro Aspro apo Mavro - Greece, Macedonia, Vin de Pays d’Imathia (6/6/2008)
    Greek Wines; 1/19/2008-6/10/2009: Took a while for nose and palate to evolve into something perceptible. Slate and rust on the nose. A slight thickness on the palate with lemon, Rainer cherries and slight sherbet-y feeling. Some leather notes very faint. Nice balance, more mineral elements peek out on the finish. Interesting wine as shadow elements of Xino red flit in and out, but the central core and style is very much Chablis-esque.

Posted from CellarTracker



  • 2000 Chrisohoou Xinomavro Estate Chrisohoou - Greece, Macedonia, Naoussa (1/1/2008)
    Aged colour with no browning. Bright acidity and lots of secondary elements which come through on the nose and palate. Light body, some fruit in the middle. Persimmon-like astringency which provides a nice vibrato note. Very focused and narrow. Opened up to a broader expression with saddle soap and dust on the nose and a acid-based body. Narrows on the finish with good persistence. Mostly a middle-aged red feeling with what may be xinomavro typicity accenting.
  • 2005 Chrisohoou ΠΕΤΡΙΤΗΣ - Greece (12/25/2007)
    Undistinct - picture a generic, low-end “Napa” merlot and you’ve got it. Or 2BC. The producer’s website claims this as off-dry, but it is in the same way that 2BC is.

I think this wine hit the highest price point for Greek wines. The LX stands for sixty months - 30 in barrel, 30 in bottle - before release.

  • 1999 Domaine Hatzimichalis Cabernet Sauvignon LX - Greece, Attica, Atalanti Valley (1/2/2008)
    Starts with not much on the nose, but really takes off in the mouth with a very seductive elegance and length. A nice medium weight, soft and fine tannins and the bare edge of vanillin which recedes and pushes some good tart fruit. Very faceted in its structure with lovely angles which seem to be hiding something. More bright berries, a bit of roasted mushroom and some chypre. Very nice overall.


  • 2006 Domaine Costa Lazaridi Amethystos - Greece, Macedonia, Drama (1/4/2008)
    Nice tropical fruits with a soft grassiness and lime-y finish. A nice saline mineral bite and clean finish. Zippy and persistent. Not a great wine, but certainly at the upper tier of the genre.
  • 2002 Domaine Costa Lazaridi Cabernet Sauvignon Amethystos Cava - Greece, Macedonia, Drama (12/22/2007)
    Soft nose with mild currant, tobacco and must. Nice fruit, good body with a slightly vegetal core and svelte body. Good balance, medium length. Good expression of CabSav at a modulated level.


  • 2005 Skouras Agiorgitiko - Greece, Peloponnisos, Nemea (1/4/2008)
    Purple robe. Soft on the nose and the palate. Dim fruit. Poor body with low acid and flabby fruit. No precision, no verve, no interest. A supermarket wine - I’ve had this wine in disguise at numerous functions. Why do they bother?
  • 2006 Boutari Moschofilero - Greece, Peloponnisos, Mantinia (12/25/2007)
    Bath salts and citrus nose. Slight sweetness on the back is noticable and puts off-balance. Good fruit and a mineral side comes out. Decent aperitif.

Posted from CellarTracker

Posted by Andrew Hall:

Last year, I made two trips to Cyprus for family stuff. I raided numerous wine shops and avoided family by going through a number of Greek (and Cypriote) wines. Lots of whatever wines. Lots of international crap. A few really interesting ones. The highlight was me running through the house, pointing at a glass and shouting with a big smile, “There is no fruit in this wine. There is NO FRUIT in this wine.”

With no small conceit, I think my notes are particularly of note since these were all bottles purchased and I tasted each them across at least a night if not a couple days. There is very little out there with that kind of depth.

Andrew,
It sounds like your impression overall is radically different from mine.
The overall QPR-value of Greek wines shown in the last two years (5 years for others) has convinced several of us that many imported Greek wines are still flying under the radar despite acclaim from many respected journalists. Yea, distribution kinda sucks but its gradually improving. You may wish to check out the http://www.allaboutgreekwine.com/roadshow.htm roadshow next year. Its worth a detour for me.

I am seriously thinking about it.

I suspect the divergence is due to palate. I found too many generic wines that tasted like they could come from anywhere. In Cyprus, they were not any cheaper than alternatives. As an example, I think there was exactly one Syrah that was interesting. It is not that the others were bad, they were not just not my style at all.

A.

FWIW, my highlights from this year’s tasting in NYC were:

Tselepos Mantinia
most everything from Gaia
most everything from Domaine Mercouri
most everything from Skouros
Oenoforos Asproliti (Roditis)
Papaioannou Assyrtico
Sigalis Assyrtico
Katogi-Strofilia Xynomavro
Kir Yianni Pamieta (Xynomavro)
Ktima Pavlidis

Great thread with many interesting TNs. Nicos Manessis has been the authority on the wines of Greece for some time now. Thanks for the link to his web site.

Years ago in a thread on another (ahem, cough cough) wine BB about the use of native varieties in regions with a long winemaking history like Greece but which are now re-emerging on the contemporary wine scene, an interesting disucssion took place regarding the “Catch-22” dilemma of winemakers in these regions: basically, the wine market outside of their native regions are wary of trying “unknown” native varieties so in order to get some credence, the winemakers make wine using well-known international varieties either wholely or in blends. This of course dilutes the wine and makes it somewhat less interesting (who wants yet another Cab / Syrah / Merlot / Chard when there are already so many from which to choose) yet if they have a very difficult time with attempting to break into the market using only indiginous grapes.

Some stand out varieties and producers (IMHO): Malagousia from Gerovasiliou, Xinomavro from Karyda and Kir-Yianni, Robola from producers in Cephalonia, Assyrtiko from producers in Santorini, and reds from Nemea using the St George (Ayiogyrtiko) variety.

Alex

Just catching up on some Greek notes here on the forum. I have just opened the `08 Boutari Santorini white. Bracing acidity and minerally, green apples.
Will post proper TN later.