Maybe they had been open too long? Double decanted too long ago? ‘Slow oxed’ for too long? Not kept cool enough after opening?
or too many of them were picked from overripe grapes.
She may have had too much kitten fur in her mouth.
I went carefully through Neal Martin’s notes. He included all of his notes from different tastings (Farr, BI and chateau), sometimes three for the same wine. One thing that struck me was how many wines showed differently between the different tastings, particularly with flaws or “non-representative” bottles. Lots of “?” or tentative ratings. Pavie Macquin actually had two bad bottles, each earning a “?”. D’Yquem didn’t get a “?,” but only because he more or less cheated: the first bottle was bad at the tasting, so he went for a second one that was proper.
The notes on bad bottles of 2009s are interesting to me because, as I mentioned in another thread a few weeks ago, I had some bottles of wine in my garage that came out cooked – even though it never got crazy hot in there. And guess what? One case was 2009 cru bourgeoise – de Fieuzal, La Tour Martillac, Monbousquet – stuff like that. I haven’t gone through the whole case yet, but I’m wondering if those were predisposed to having issues.
Interesting. I did not buy a lot of 2009 (almost none, actually) but I was not planning on drinking what I had bought for a very long time. Now I am beginning to think that might not be the best strategy
I think 2009 was a good year if you were careful. You really had to taste before buying. Many wines were horribly secondary and/or hot (often both.) But many wines were very nice in a semi-New World style. If you have Catholic tastes, it’s definitely a vintage worth having (in small quantities.)
Saying that, if I had to choose 2009 or 2010 I usually much prefer the latter, bit really, you should taste each wine before buying as no vintage is 100% good or bad. Sociando 2003 is superb!
Is ripeness really related to premature oxidation or is this a TIC comment about the modern trend to greater ripeness in Bordeaux?
I have a fair number of 2009s and would be interested in hearing which specific wines, if any, were singled out as showing oxidation. I haven’t touched most of the “major” 2009s yet, but have seen no signs of oxidation in any of the following that I’ve opened in the past year (2 or 3 times for some of these):
Lanessan
Haut-Bergey
Meyney
Branon
Poujeaux
Sociando Mallet
Lalande Borie
Cantemerle
Rochemorin
From Neal Martin’s notes (with the tasting event in parentheses):
Angelus (Farr)
Haut Bailly (Farr)
L’Evangile (Farr)
La Lagune (Farr, this was brett)
Leoville Las Cases (Farr)
Pavie Macquin (Farr and B&I)
There were a number of others that, based on the notes, I would guess showed signs of volatile acidity, and a number more that he thought were not representative compared with past bottles (Clerc Milon, Haut Brion, Langoa Barton, Les Carmes Haut Brion, Malescot St. Exupery, Marquis de Terme, Poujeaux, Sociando Mallet). There were also quite a few that he indicated showed troubling signs of age (Beausejour, Canon, Monbrison, Rouget), which was something Lisa noted as well. The Farr tasting seemed to have more flawed wines.
I don’t know whether overripeness (as opposed to ripeness) has anything to do with the type of premature oxidation that we discuss with respect to white Burgundies, Loire whites, etc.
But it has been my experience that wines from overripe grapes tend not to age as well as wines from properly ripe grapes. Is this premature oxidation or something else? I don’t know, I consider this something else.
Chris, thanks for the list. I only have a couple from that first bunch and haven’t tried any. Will take a look in on Haut Bailly this week. Of the rest, I’ve had Poujeaux a few times and Sociando once over the past 6 months andthought they were showing fine.
Howard, got it, that makes sense. I’m still not sure I know where the line between ripe and too ripe to age is in Bordeaux. My preferences cover a broader range of ripeness than some of the more traditional palates here. I’ve had more faith in the 2009s than some. So far I’ve been happy with the wines I’ve opened, but for my palate the real test for the bigger wines is if they develop that magical complexity out past age 20 or 25. We’ll see if my faith was misplaced in another decade or two, if I’m still around.
David, I was not suggesting that ALL 2009 Bordeauxs were made with overripe grapes, just at least some of the ones starting to taste old. It is not overripeness that is why I am not a big fan of 2009s. A number of wines I have tasted from excellent estates do not seem to have this flaw or taste older. But, with only a few exceptions, the wines I have had seem to me to have insufficient acidity - they just don’t taste fresh compared with vintages like 2000, 2001, 2005, 2008 and 2014.
I hear you Howard. The 2009s are on the low acid side. Could be an issue for aging, but they shouldn’t be crapping out at only 10 years.
Over the last year I tasted and drank plenty Crus Bourgeoise from vintage 2009 and liked pretty much all of them. A wonderful vintage for this category IMO. All the big Left Bank wines are too young for my palate.
I haven’t had any of the ‘big names’ from 2009, but a 2009 Cantemerle opened the other night was showing well. It could probably go a few more years, but I don’t see a particular reason to wait.
As I said, the ones where the only issue is low acid are rich wines that to me taste flabby but others like you enjoy. My guess is the ones crapping out at only 10 years were the ones made from overripe grapes. My guess is that some producers looking for maximum ripeness guessed wrong on picking dates and waited too long.
Perhaps, but while overripe may lead to poor long-term aging, I don’t equate it with crapping out at only 10 years. Unless they were maybe picking raisins that were all sugar and no acid.
One of the wines pegged as oxidized was the 2009 Haut Bailly. The Farr Vintners bottle may have been oxidized, but the one I opened yesterday was not. And while lower acid and riper than say the 2010, and not an AFWE wine, it was not way out there. So it’s also possible that there is some bottle variation or difference in heat exposure somewhere along the way.
Leoville Las Cases was on the list. This wine is as traditionally made as possible and I cannot imagine that overripe grapes played a role. Something else must be responsible. IMO.
Howard,
I think our palates are not dissimilar, and I have no problem with the Haut Bailly 2009
And stating the obvious, different wine experts have different palates/different opinions.
Case in point–the 2009 Troplong-Mondot. Here is Neal Martin’s recent note.
The 2009 Troplong-Mondot has a completely over the top, gregarious and raisin-like bouquet that frankly comes as no surprise given the philosophy of the estate at this time. The palate is sweet on the entry with candied black cherries, cassis and cough candy, unlike Bordeaux in some ways with a rather cloying and alcoholic finish. Now it seems like an anachronism. 2020 - 2032
Score: 90 Neal Martin, vinous.com, March 2019
Two more reviews of the same wine . . . at the same tasting event:
Deep garnet colored, the 2009 Troplong Mondot bounds out of the glass with plum preserves, spice cake, mincemeat and potpourri scents plus suggestions of exotic spices, incense and a waft of balsamic. Full-bodied, super rich, concentrated and plushly textured, the hedonic fruit possesses loads of spicy layers and a very long and decadent finish. If you love wines you can stand a spoon up in, you’re gonna go nuts over this extravagant beauty. 2019 - 2040.
Score: 96 Lisa Perrotti-Brown MW, Wine Advocate (241), March 2019
And,
Although this is very ripe and rich with a generous body and a slew of black fruit aromas it’s also elegant and poised. The bitter chocolate character is more restrained than in many modern-style Right Bank wines of this period and there’s a lovely balance of lively acidity with fine dry tannins at the complex finish. Drink or hold. (Horizontal Tasting, London, 2019)
Score: 96 Stuart Pigott, JamesSuckling.com, March 2019
And finally a Nov 2017 note from Jeb Dunnuck:
Pure perfection in a glass, the incredible 2009 Troplong Mondot offers off the chart notes of blackcurrants, licorice, truffles and saddle leather that just soar from the glass. This is a big, ripe, incredibly sexy wine that hits the palate with a huge texture, building, ripe tannin, no weight, and a finish that just won’t quit. Utterly brilliant stuff, it’s slightly more approachable than the 2005, but both of these vintages play in the same style. Drink bottles anytime over the coming two to three decades. Bravo! 2018 - 2048. 100 Points.