You know, those pig f*ckin cattle types…
I thought everyone kept typing “PITA” to be clever, but now I think not. Too bad. It was funny.
PITA is an acronym for “Pain In The Ass”
I believe those in this thread were referring to “People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals”, or PETA.
When I was typing that I felt like something was wrong, but couldn’t put my finger on it.
I do think they should have notified you so you could eat before or after or decline the offer to attend. A classic communication issue. Was all the wine/beer they served vegan? (I ask kind of joking as were the only ones actually putting that on wine labels though most vegetarians/vegans don’t realize wine/beer/spirits would not be).
Up here in AV we have had all kinds of friends on all kinds of restrictions over the years. Now it seems to be much more where did it come from kind of thing, basically no meat from the chain stores. Which is pretty much where were at at this time. Many have young kids and that seemed to change folks thoughts. We buy local animals and split them with friends and family. We have our own chickens for eggs and there is cheese made right here in the valley as well, across the street from me so its not that hard to do you just have to plan ahead and have a big freezer.
For us if were hosting we feel obligated to take all things into account. If someone is hosting me I am not as picky but have never left anywhere hungry either. I think they were just bad cooks as it does take more time and knowledge to pull it off well. The biggest mixed company gathering (all ages and mixed restrictions) we did last we did vegan chili base with so many options to add, cheeses, meats, tofu, onions/shallots, etc. that everyone could add what they wanted to. Gluten free corn bread is easy to find/make also.
I never really have know any vegetarians or vegans that eat the fake meat products, burgers/dogs/sausage etc. They are heavily processed (long ingredients lists), expensive, and rarely organic (less so now but still few options). Many do not recommend eating them at all if your trying to be vegetarians or vegans for the first year as they just don’t compare to real meat.
Joe, all the vegetarians I knew during my time as ovo-lacto knew about all the different products that could be used in wine and beer and some kept list of which ones were confirmed safe. This was early 90s through mid 00s when things weren’t so vegan friendly and people had to do more of their own research so maybe these days people don’t know but back then they surely did.
My blood sugar would go through the roof from the highest carb meal I have had in over 5 years. I might get by if I scrape the topping off the toast points and the pizza and I skip the pasta and risotto, but do you have any idea how much sugar there is in tomatoes and onions?
On the other hand, when we had the Berserkerfest at my house in May, I made mushroom risotto for the guests and never tasted it myself because I preferred to save my carbs for something else. When we prepare large dinners for the family homeless shelter in White Plains, I insist on preparing food that they like and anyone who volunteers and then lectures me about the menu and how we need to teach the guests how to eat is summarily thrown out of the kitchen.
That isn’t the way I actually eat, Jay, nor was I saying it’s a good way to eat. I myself eat mostly vegetables and lean proteins. I was making a point that Alan could “survive” a meal without meat, that there are tons of delicious dishes without meat, and that one can cook good food under nearly any set of restrictions.
I was thinking the same thing. I LOVE meat, but I KNOW I could fix a vegan meal that even a carnivore would love. There is no reason for food to be boring even with limited ingredients.
Agreed. I eat a lot of Indian Vegan dishes and make a few myself. They are excellent. The problem with Modern American Vegan food is that they try to replicate meat, which is ridiculous. Tofurkey hot dogs? Just the thought makes me gag. Boca Burgers? Reshaped cardboard. But Ratners makes a veggie burger that doesn’t try to be anything but a vegetable croquette, and it is excellent. I used to keep a case of them in my freezer, but had to stop 5 years ago because the carb content was too high.
it makes me happy to prepare food people will enjoy. I guess we just have different views of hospitality.
About 6 weeks into this vegan thing. I am mostly in it for the health reason, but there are other reasons as well. I seem to be an anomaly in the vegan world. Not many 53 year old white guys going vegan it seems.
Its been a struggle learning to cook and shop all over again, but overall its been fun and educational. I keep learning every week. I never eat out much so thats not a challenge for me, and even on the road I somehow survived. I dont die if I cant find 100% totally vegan meals, so I just get as close as I can and call it good.
I know I feel better and that is what is important to me. Back to the dinner party thing, if I hosted one, I would cook normal main courses and plenty of vegan sides and just eat the sides. That way everyone wins.
Good stuff. I’m eating vegan around 95% of my meals. I still cook meat for my family (mostly the children).
The moral high ground when it comes to food preferences. Ethical meat - really? Taking the “moral high ground” eventually becomes tiresome, whether religious, secular, vegan, carnivore, omnivore, or whatever. I am superior to you as opposed to I have different preferences than you.
Embracement of diversity, correct?
Moral high ground? Maybe. But avoiding cruelty seems something we should all strive for where possible.
Both Alan Watts and D.T. Suzuki had no problem eating meat. And a person who is killing as painlessly as possible, butchering, and preparing it themselves certainly has as much of the moral high ground as one who abstains. Not to mention those such as myself who purchase their meat in those plastic packs, organic or otherwise.
Oh, please, you’re just doing it so you can spend more time using your knives. 
I work with a guy who has the same complaint - we occasionally attend sustainability conferences together and those often serve at least one vegan or vegetarian meal. I always scope out the lunch buffet early to see if I’m going to have to listen to his complaints about meat eaters rights all afternoon … and then into the cocktail hour.
This is the best explanation for this issue that I have ever seen.
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No not really. Speaking again for a group that I don’t even belong to, one needn’t accept unethical or wrong behavior in the name of diversity. This thread is a fascinating study in being deliberately obtuse. I just hope most of it is an attempt at humor. Look, I eat meat. I even eat regular grocery store meat, which is not (even assuming the concept is somewhat abstract) ethical meat. That said, I understand the arguments against it, feel that they are basically correct, yet eat meat anyway because it tastes good and the damage is remote. But I’m not going to pretend that this is a mystery.
So, moving beyond that, what is it that confuses you, the concept of ethical meat? Perhaps I should suggest more ethical meat vs less ethical. I think that meat raised on a well-run farm, not mistreated, never overcrowded, never exposed to high disease environments then pumped with antibiotics to combat that because it maximizes profit, never factory farmed, is more ethically sound. I know a lot of people who can afford to always eat that kind of meat so they do so. I find the cost benefit to be questionable so I don’t as often as I’d strictly like to do so. But again, I recognize that raising animals for food presents an ethical issue, and that doing so in factory farm environments greatly intensifies the effect. I recognize that the way we raise chickens is horrific. I recognize that the methane created by farming of animals likely contributes to global warming and that in many places the animal waste creates large amounts of pollution. Put simply, there are moral, ethical issues associated with meat. It is possible to accept this and still eat meat. I’d argue it is better to accept these truths even if choosing not to abstain, than to lie to myself about it.
As for moral high ground, I think there’s a gigantic misconception amongst meat eaters that vegetarians or vegans are making their lifelong dietary choices based upon how they perceive themselves in relation to others. I don’t think most non-meat eaters make the choice to never eat meat, based upon a desire to feel morally superior to those who do. I think that people do so for many reasons, including health reasons, but that more often than not it is because they find eating meat to be unethical and don’t wish to participate in that activity. In other words, they make this decision for their own reasons, having absolutely nothing to do with you as a meat eater. Most (maybe all) of the vegetarians and vegans I know amongst my family and close friends made those choices years and years ago. Most of them have never made any fuss about their choices, don’t attempt to dictate where the group eats or what it eats, and will provide for themselves as needed. None of them have ever lectured anyone (in my presence) on the evils of meat.
Thank you for this. As a pescetarian for 8 years, and an aspiring vegan, I give zero f*cks what anyone else chooses to eat or why. My choices are not based on others, nor do I look down on others for choosing to eat meat. I only discuss my choices when asked, but never try to sell anyone on my choices.
I definitely understand why some choose to openly promote their veg or vegan lifestyle because as Michael notes, it does present ethical issues, unless you choose to willfully ignore them. I also understand and readily accept that some people who enjoy meat like to openly promote their enjoyment of it via, for example, Bacon is life t-shirts.
A carnivorous lifestyle is not under threat in the US. The recent uptick in promotion and availability of vegetarianism and vegan foods is merely a much overdue correction for those that want to pursue a diet different than the overwhelming number of Americans. Embracement of Diversity, correct, Tom?
I agree with whoever upthread noted that this thread merely seems like trolling. Most of what has been written is hard to take seriously.