Evolution of Napa Cabs - thoughts on Drinking Windows

WINE TALK
1

Have had wonderful cabs from Napa and Sonoma from mid-70’s to 2012. Apropos to the recent thread on whether drinking windows are bunk, I’m wondering folks’ preferences on when they like to drink their Napa and Sonoma cabs and why. Didn’t think a survey would be that useful, just want thoughts. Accepting that some wines are famously rough young (Dunn, Togni, Forman), I am most curious about:

  1. Take a Bond, Harlan, SE, HA or similar Big Parker Cab - when would you drink it and why? And have you had ones from the mid-90’s or early 2000’s and if so, do you like where they’ve gone?
  2. Same with a TRB, Mike Smith, Cathy Corison, Aaron Potts, Paul Draper - is there a difference in aging?
  3. Is there a sweet spot for you? It could be a year after bottling or ten. Why?

Thanks for your collective wisdom. :slight_smile:

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Noah, fwiw, I separate Cali Cabs into two camps: Faders and Evolvers.

The Faders tend to be nice and powerful when young, but then just fade. I think many of the big Parker point guys fall here. In my mind, Silver Oak Alexander Valley, Lail - Daniel J Cuvée, Lajota Anniversary, Realm, Robert Foley Claret all have a similar profile and pattern; great in a steakhouse, chocolate, espresso nose, maybe some baking spices, but when trying 1997 versions, I found nothing new or exciting, just a weaker expression of the wine. Drink 4 to 6 years from vintage. Once they start to fade they loose their appeal.

Evolvers change over time fo me, developing that mushroomey forest floor nose along with secondary flavors and varied mid-palate experiences. Ridge MB, Beringer Private Reserve, Montelena, BV GEorge deLatour, Laurel Glen all have evolved for me. OK in the 4 to 6 year window. Best 15 + years out. Avoid 6 to 10 year from vintage window. All of these times vary by wine of course, but the idea is that there is a zone to avoid. Young or old, just not in between.

There are others that do beguile me: Garguilo Money Road Ranch from 2003 does something special after 4 hour decant. Renaissance is in a world of its own. Lots of others that I work on trying to decide their natural habitat. Just have to keep plugging away.

KJF

3

TRB told me to go 5-7.
Celia said something similar, but up to 10.
Les Behrens told me 10 at the most.

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Noah,
We discussed this a bit over the summer, and this thread yielded some interesting discussion:

I like modern Napa in the 5-8 range, and with some notable exceptions, find many to drop off 10 years from vintage.

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I’m curious about the Bonds and Harlans of the world. Anyone with experience of these with age?

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I’ve had Harlan at 10+
It holds up IMO

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I had 94 Harlan a few years ago. It was one of the best wines I’ve ever had, and certainly not anywhere near a point of decline.

8

95 and 96 maiden seem to be peaking right now.

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I’ve had the pleasure of drinking many wonderful Napa Cabs from the 70’s & 80’s double blind over the past few years. Sometimes, I end up guessing the wines are 10 years younger than they actually are. For my palate, I really love what pre Parker California Cab shows with substantial bottle age.

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There is not a single Napa Cab I would intentionally age more than 12 years. Not Dunn, or Corison, or anyone. If I have a wine I really like at age 15, it is quite random and unpredictable.

I just find that once you get past a dozen years, I am as often disappointed as happy with the results. Furthermore, I find that even a wine that is “good” at 20 years, was almost always better a decade earlier than that. I have a bias to fruit for Napa wines because that is what we do best most of the time and I often find that unlike Bordeaux, tertiary characteristics are a bit of a crapshoot with Napa aged wine. I don’t like crapshoots.

My favorite drinking window is release to 12 years, with my “zone” being aged 8-12.

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. double post

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I used to have a bunch of verticals from 80’s → 2000
Montelena Estate: really depends on the vintage, but 84, 87 were nice and now I drink them younger but still have some 20+ years of bottle age.

Spottswoode: ditto but had some 90’s start to fade

Dominus: 83/84, 87, then hit and miss, but 91, 94 are still at a prime, though some could fade.

Diamond Creek: 81, 84, 85, I drank. but have some 87 and 90’s more for curiosity.

From Sonoma I have some 90’s Laurel Glenn and Arrowood’s that remain very very good with 15-20 years of bottle age
but suspect they fade, and very vintage dependant. 91, 94 I like.

The Cali cabs I buy to conciously age over 7-10 yrs:

  • Dunn Howell Mntn
  • Ridge Monte Bello

as to Harlan: I don’t have any, but friends collect them and they are released with years of bottle age. The youngest one I had recently was probably 08’ and tight as hell, needed hrs in a decanter. Had an 00 in mag and it was OK.
I had 05/06 bonds, 05, 06, 07 Maiden and they are nice, but no hurry, didn’t think they lost anything, tannins smooth out and integrate, fruit still holds up.
Harlan from 90’s are legendary, 01/02 was just starting to really open up again with hrs in a decanter/glass.

Aaron Potts: I’ll wait on the Arsenal/Greer from 07/09 for a while, had the 07 Greer last year and it was superb, but I think it will hold on to it’s lush fruit for a decade or more.

Kinda agree with Roy though that most Napa cabs can be enjoyed early, so I buy 3-6 of a vintage I like, pop one after release and then check back. I like to do horizontal 10 year, 15 or 20 year retrospectives. Will see how the 97’s held up
as we did a 94 retro last year and quite happy with the stuff we drank but a few klunkers.

13

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. Have been able to find interesting deals on supposedly well-stored Cali cabs from 70’s and 80’s, starting with birthday wines. They’ve generally been less expensive than other parts of the world, and I like old wine much of the time, but I also like young Cali cabs but find Bordeaux ready to rip my face off with tannin when drunk young.

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FWIW we are thru most of a case of 2001 Lail J Daniel, every bottle has been terrific.

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Somewhere in the 5-8 year range I think does justice to most of these wines. They can and will certainly hold up much longer than that, and they will certainly change. But will they get “better” beyond, say, 10 years? I’m not certain. Certainly some labels and some bottles do. But if I give general guidelines when asked about my own, I’d say 5-8 years is optimal.

Then there are those instances where the wine does a dance, going in and out of what had been believed to be its prime window. I have had vintages that taste “younger” 3-5 years after we thought it had peaked. Fascinating.

16

Honestly, I’m not being cynical but my experience is that many winemakers espouse the 5-8 window; I’m guessing they don’t want to be responsible if a wine does not age well longer and they want you to be drinking the wines so that you continue to buy! It is a business after all. I think any expensive California Cabernet that doesn’t age well for 10 years is a waste of good money. I stand by the 10 year mark and , of course many wines age quite a bit longer than that. I recently had a 1991 Beringer Private Reserve (no cult wine here) and it was singing.

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We had the lovely 1994 Beringer Bancroft Ranch Merlot over holidays, still youthful.

18

Roy,

Thanks for your recommendations. This is very helpful since I have a good amount of Napa Cabs in my cellar.

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To me, there is no disputing that “older” Napa Cabernets can deliver extraordinary pleasure. I have enjoyed in the last 2 years so many: 1985 Groth, 1994 Mt. Veeder Reserve, 1997 LaJota, 1988 Dunn…the list goes on and on. I have also experienced some that are tired, done, or perhaps were just not that great to begin with.

But I think the original post by Noah is a complex one - he has it broken into 3 parts, and there are probably 3 aspects beneath each of the parts that are worth considering. I don’t think there is anything wrong with the palate that likes a younger, fresher tasting wine. Many of our members here are in their 20s and 30s and just have not had the opportunity to purchase on release and age, say, a case, opening bottles at different stages and seeing where they like them.

It is very difficult to generalize on these things. When I open 3 vintages of my own and share them, people ask which one I think is the best. I always say it is difficult to be precise on that question, because the playing field is never even. Is the 2007 a better wine than the 2009 or the 2011? We don’t really know - whenever we taste them, they are by definition at different stages of the aging process. And that is aside from the character that is lent to each wine purely as a result of the vintage growing season.

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As with just about everything, people have individual tastes. Leonard may like his wines much older than Roy does. Pobega might like them younger still than Roy.

And, of course, individual wines age differently, due to site, vintage, and/or winemaker intention. I’m a big fan of Larkmead cabs and am drinking an '01 as I type this. On opening, I was of the opinion that it was probably past peak. I decanted it anyway, on the advice of someone who’d had it recently. An hour in, I was still uncertain and reminded of the '02, which was excellent in its time but, to me, has slipped a step or two in the last two years. (Or, maybe it’s just the individual bottles I’ve had?) Now, 2.5 hours in and it’s seemingly fully awake, with great balance between the fruit, tannins, alcohol, and acidity. I don’t know how long it’ll stay here. I’m not sure it would appeal to Roy…or to Leonard, for that matter. But, it’s pleasing my wife and me a great deal.

In this hobby, I feel like I’m perpetually learning. Generalizations are helpful (like I generally prefer my CA cabs 7-10 years from vintage) but there are so many exceptions that I never really know what I’m going to be impressed by next.