Ever have bad Champagne ??

WINE TALK
21

Ignoring flawed bottles there are certainly many zero dosage wines which I don’t care for at all. There are also quite a few that I love, but for my palate it can be a very unforgiving style.

22

I do not drink Champagne regularly, but have had a couple of corked bottles from the more respected producers.

OK then, here I go… [stirthepothal.gif]
If producers can employ a metal cap during fermentation to carbonate, why not do so after disgorgement and dosage?
I know, I know what about the festive nature and ritual of removing the muselet and popping the cork? Too effing close to the screw cap dilemma?
I must then, sally forth with how about those who saber Champagne? Or, we shall overcome, but with a blade?
My last thought, would a metal cap eliminate the loss of carbonation/mousse? Uh oh, I think the traditionalist Brit Champagne lovers just put a contract out on me! [bye2.gif]

23

I assumed that the composite cork (assembled from cork pieces) used for champagnes would avert TCA issues. Is that not the case?

You should have abused yours, as I did the magnificent bottle I posted on a 10 days ago.

24

Remember, it’s a highly blended product. Non-vintage Champagne is blended from several crops to make it uniform. And in vintage Champagne they adjust the dosage (sugar) additions to maintain uniformity vintage to vintage. In some ways, it’s more like a spirit than a wine in that the producers aim for the same flavor year in, year out.

Are you drinking the big brands? Knowing something about your preferences from your posts, I suspect you would not like some of the no-dosage wines from even good small producers.

25

Yes.

26

I’ve had more corked bottles of champagne and sparkling wines than still wines. Not sure how I manage to pull that off. It makes it hard for us to fall fully for it.

27

Plenty of bad champagne.

Even more overrated champagne: Laval, Savart, Bereche Antans…

28

+1

I also had a run of Dom from post 96 that were just not much to my taste.

29

Wines with sugar in them – Champagne, riesling, Port and Sauternes – have a fairly high floor. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

30

John

As usual for me i am the opposite of what you might expect, i love zero dosage Champagne, I dont seek out grower bottles but im certainly up for trying them, it is hard to find anything except the big names in stores like Binnys. I will say that Krug to me is excellent with Dom Ruinart at the same level, DP you can keep as overpriced.

31

This.

I’m raising my eyebrows here on the claims of no TCA in Champagne etc. I’ve had enough corked, flat, oxidized and otherwise faulty bottles to know Champagnes are as susceptible to faults as any other wine style.

To John: The Champagne corks are agglomerate corks, but not Diam corks which are treated TCA-free, so there’s plenty of opportunity for the wines to be corked. Furthermore, there’s always a solid disk of cork glued to the part that’s in touch with the wine to provide more integrity to the cork.

Anyhow, if you want to taste bad Champagne, you don’t need to do much besides buying bottles of vintage grower Champagne from 2010 or, better yet, 2011. These two lousy vintages produced lots of wines that are dull, unpleasantly green, musty and very awkward. Especially biodynamic growers seem to perform badly, because even though the grapes seemed to be a bit healthier, they often ripen a bit later than conventionally cultivated grapes - and in these cooler vintages many Champagnes show very harsh, green and unclean aroma- and flavor profile, suggesting both unripe and perhaps also mouldy grapes.

32

Although I must add that - ironically - one of the best young rosé bubblies I’ve had in a while was Savart 1er Cru Expression Rosé Nature 2011… :smiley:

33

Simply not true!
I had quite a lot of corked Champagnes over the last 3 decades … either in our monthly tasting group (where we usually open the evening with Champagne) - or at home … or wherever.
It may be that TCA is slighly harder to detect with bubbles, but it´s not extremely rare.

Also I had many Champagnes that didn´t fulfill the (my) expectations … usually a 25 EURO Champagne tastes like 20 - 25 - 30 Euro … rarely better … (and at 30 it´s a success) … but I´ve had many more expensive ones (70/80+) that were not better than 40/50 Euro bubbles … and these were not compromized bottles … !

AND: no - the worst Champagnes are not great to drink - they are usually drinkable but no more.

34

I had corked Champagne several times. The closure is cork. Therefore its clear that TCA can be a problem.
I also had advanced and oxidized Champagne. But most of the times when it was too old. I always wonder when people rave about a somewhat tired bottle of Champagne. To everyone his own.

BTW: Not long ago 3 reliable and well known German Sommeliers tasted standard Champagne blind for a German magazine. Well known names were included such as Moet&Chandon, some smaller houses and bottles from supermarkets. One of these supermarket labels (Rewe, Champagne Bach) was among the top products and way better than the Moet etc. It costs 13 € only. I was curious and bought a bottle. And I tell you what? Its delicious and enjoyable Champagne indeed. Certainly not a Dom Perignon but a bottle you mus´t get a red head when you serve it as an aperitif for your wine loving friends.

35

Them’s fightin’ words.

36

[winner.gif]

37

The Champagne enclosure is an agglomerated cork and as such might be differently affected or perceptible to TCA perhaps.

38

I think that as more folks drink Champagne, and they explore it by serving it in non-flutes and perhaps tasting it at varying temperatures rather than ice cold, you’ll start seeing greater disparity in quality.

I’ve run across a couple of corked bottles recently that were not that evident when the bottles were originally served - but became more apparent at room temperature.

Just something else to think about . . .

Cheers!

39

Hi Alan
Almost perfectly timed, this thread running on another forum describes a very disappointing tasting of champagnes, posted by someone who is very much a fan of the region.
https://wine-pages.com/community/threads/a-very-brief-and-maybe-harsh-report-from-champagne-tasting.6429/

Not everything was disappointing, but a shocking amount was.

Regards
Ian

40

Interesting Ian, Brits do love the bubbly

Seperate question, is Brexit causing any price increases ?