Greg, well put.
Hi Brent! Took a sabbatical from online, just had other things to dive into with limited time. Would read through from time to time, just out of curiosity.
I guess all of the brett-inoculated beers around the world need to be recalled and destroyed since “any rational person knows that brett equals spoilage.”
I’m certainly not an organic activist, but this is simply removed from reality
The Santa Barbara farm linked to latest romaine outbreak doesn’t seem to be organic
http://www.adambros.com/
Organic certainly doesn’t prevent risk of food poisoning (especially with things like sprouts) but this is real hyperbole.
As to original post, think reading shows that Asimov didn’t “recommend” these wines./
Your first link shows nothing in this regard. Second link, one exception? Though the page says “Certified”, but then doesn’t show what for, so who knows. OK, but in general, failure to protect the land and crops, and mostly in organically grown fields. I pretty much stopped buying anything “organically grown” after visiting best lettuce grower in SLH and a tour of his farm, years ago. Interesting story.
To the point of Asimov’s article, and reading through a ton of responses, it is clear there is a huge market for sugar laden wine, and there is a reason they are so widely available and made in train load quantities. And sold in train load quantities. And consumed in train load quantities. This board, and a few like it, are an exception to the rule, real rule has been sugary/sweetened wines. Historically, actually. So, no real surprise in Asimov’s article, and actually the point he most likely tried to make in the first place, at least that’s how it reads to me. A relative of mine doesn’t really like Pinot Noir, although Idid introduce him to good renditions and he now buys and drinks Flowers Pinot, which he likes. But early last year he said he and his wife tried Meiomi and loved it. I told him same thing I tell everyone else asking me for advice, Drink whatever you like and don’t listen to anyone telling you otherwise. I did taste him on Allegrini Amarone around same time and he really didn’t like it, even the nose. Its a simple premise. And yes, chaptalization is a well known technique in Burgundy, so let’s leave it at that instead of sounding indignant.
We’re an exception, not the rule.
Let’s not forget all of those moldy cheeses.
To mix metaphors, bug vs. feature is often in the eye of the beholder.
What do beer and cheese have to do with wine?
No, it’s part of a series, unless I am mistaken, called “wine school,” which does not mean it is not a bit of a publicity stunt. Every month he recommends 3 wines, tells folks to find and drink, and correlates their views and his own. Next month, there will be an article about the comparative tasting of the three, and, in the meantime, three new wines proposed to try and discuss. (He just finished port and that get’s the main write-up this month.)
They’re all foods that don’t have every detail associated with their production listed on the label. Nor should they IMO.
They all involve microbes in their production.
They may all demonstrate certain characteristics that are considered desirable by some and flaws by others.
While brett in WINE is still considered a major flaw. This is wine board last I checked.
The dose makes the poison and the effects of brett are neither simple nor uniform. Some rational people who are knowledgeable about and experienced with wine consider it a major flaw. Many others are capable of a nuanced understanding of a subject and recognize that while brett can pose a risk as it can’t be reliably controlled, some expressions of brett can make a positive contribution to some wines.
Many in the second group recognize the stupidity of a hyperbolic blanket statement that “any rational person knows that brett equals spoilage.” I’d be happy to take any well-stored bottles of 1980s Beaucastel or Cordier Bordeaux off your hands, though, since they are pretty much all “spoiled” by your standard.
When you guys start eating lutefisk I may change my mind. Until then I’ll stick to my statement.
Gas lighting by Guru of Brett, Parker and his “leathery notes”, seems to have taken effect. A little brett is like being a little pregnant. As I tell any noob asking me, Drink what you like. Where did I say above that you should not be consuming bretty wines if you like them? Have at it, your money and your time.
And its still a major flaw in wine, doesn’t matter if you do not understand it. Ask any chem lab in business how many wineries test for brett, first and foremost.
And the list does not really say organic or not.
My apologies for contaminating the thread with a non-wine analogy.
Thanks to the folks who have cleared that up.
Some consider the presence of botrytis in wine a major flaw - and some winemakers test to make sure it’s not present. And let’s not even start on Madeira. Brett is a flaw if the winemaker doesn’t want it to appear in their wine. Some winemakers (and consumers) consider brett to be okay, and maybe even a positive, if it doesn’t overwhelm the wine. Others consider any amount of brett to be unacceptable - which is fine. However, given the complex processes used, and choices made, in the production of wine, an absolutist position that any amount of Brett is a flaw under any circumstances, even if some people like it, seems a bit extreme.
RE: “… if it doesn’t overwhelm the wine…”
Same argument Parker had in our online argument. Main reason I said above that little brett is same as being a little pregnant. You have no control over it and how it blooms in the bottle. THERE IS NO WAY TO CONTROL BRETT, main point as to why it is a fault in wine making, it does its own thing and masks true flavors in wine.
Parker bulked and made for the exit door as soon as I asked him to accept a simple taste challenge. I will brown bag 5-10 wines, double blind of course, all wines being single varietal, of course. He could invite as many other experts as he chooses. All I asked them to do is tell me which particular varietal is in a bottle. He declined.
So, yes, its absolutist that brett is a fault in wine. By all means, drink whatever you feel like, just please, do not argue brett is not a fault in wine. Many people don’t mind driving Alfa Romeo and car spending months per year in a shop, to them its still worth the experience. Even though to most bad quality is a fault. To each his own. Whatever. Anyway…
Back to sugar adds discussion.
Asimov just posted a follow-up to his last piece - and comments on the 800+ comments he received.
Though he does somewhat ‘bash’ these mass market wines, I enjoy his attitude that folks should not get up in arms over these - and that there truly are a lot of folks who enjoy these wines and should be made to ‘feel bad’ about it - and I could not agree more.
Why does the winemaker get to decide? Why not the ultimate consumers? I bet the winemakers at Beaucastel don’t WANT brett to appear, yet the 1989 Beaucastel has been widely considered a terrific bottle of Chateauneuf by those drinking it.