you don’t eat caviar?
Oh was Arpege pure veg before? when i went (3-4 years ago), it was basically all veg except last 2 courses… but still had a couple of courses of meat…
I did think the vegetables were superbly done tho… luckily didn’t get much repeated veg like 6 courses of beets lol…
No cheese, no dice.
My wife is a vegetarian and as I cook for the family we probably eat flesh free 5 or so nights a week (with the occasional Flannery supplement). I’ve had great vegetarian tasting menus (starting with Charlie Trotter’s), but egg, butter, cream and cheese softened the blow.
i eat eggs and dairy. I’m not vegan.
can’t keep track of the variations and definitions
EMP had one of the great NYC wine lists before Covid. Wonder if a chunk was sold off to address Humm’s financial crunch? Curious as to how the somms will adjust, particularly with respect to the red wine list.
You can still do a lot of reds if you go heavy on the tomato and mushroom. I’m thinking they might go “Noma” and go heavy on fermented foods. That can really kick up the umami in veg dishes. I’m a carnivore but ferment a lot of foods, and the flavors you can get out of them is pretty astounding. I don’t eat nearly as much meat as I used to.
CT’s vegetable menu was not vegetarian. He used meat stock in many of the dishes. Not sure if they could be substituted out but I worked in his kitchen one night (a charity thing) and was surprised by the amount of “meat” in the vegetable dishes. There were no substitutes made the night I worked there and I really don’t see CT as being at all flexible but that of course was only 1 night.
George
Will definitely give it a go. I have mad respect for his food.
Hope it goes better than the Noma vegetable menu I had precovid. That was terrible. Loved Arpege but as others have said it really does not compare from a vegetarian/vegan standpoint as there is now significant meat.
George
I worked a couple of nights there - same charity deal, but each before he went vegetable. Thanks for the insight
Since the fish dies to provide caviar (unlike chicken, duck etc eggs), caviar isn’t considered vegetarian.
Traditionally yes but there is “no kill” Caviar.
George
I am extremely excited about this. Noma’s veg menu was one of the best meals of my life. And believe it or not at 11 Madison level it is even more expensive to cook without using meat. Dan Barber said he lost money on every vegetarian menu.
I am excited as well. I have only been to EMP two times - the most memorable dishes were both vegetarian.
One was a warm porcini mushroom broth.
The second was a carrot marshmallow. Two deceptively simple dishes that were adventurous and fun.
I’ve had some great vegetarian tasting menus. In the right hands it can be better/more creative than a piece of protein on a plate with a little sauce on the side like you see at so many of these tasting menu restaurants these days. My two experiences at EMP though were very mediocre. Both times it felt that the way the plate looked was more important to the chef than the flavors working together.
I stopped going to EMP when the concept changed to just a few words for each on the menu, and the chocolates was white chocolate (discovered only upon being served. I hate white chocolate, the lard of the dessert world). That was before they went to the NY Story approach.
Now my issue is I don’t go 3-4 hour meals. Also, the leading price digit is higher than 2.
I also had high end meals where the beget version was A++ to the regular menu’s A (Buerhuesel when it was 3*, Lespinasse under Grey Kunz).
Now if they have a lunch option that’s more modest, I’m game. EMP lunches were among the best back in the day.
However… two or three years ago (I lose track), at Smythe in Chicago, one of our party, allergic to shellfish, had a turnip substituted for scallop. She raved about that throughout our trip. I guess your issue is the times six?
I was going to say. I have been to Eleven Madison quite a few times and the dishes I remember most were vegetarian. In fact, at most of these caliber of restaurants the dishes I tend to remember most are vegetarian. It is very easy to make a piece of meat taste great, but to have a truly memorable vegetarian dish is artistry. I myself am not a vegetarian, but I am sympathetic with the idea of cutting back on animal products significantly and think this is a very brave decision on the part of Eleven Madison. Seeing the reaction of people here, I fear it may not be successful. I for one will get there!
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I’ve had dozens of memorable vegetarian dishes, very few that were truly vegan, less than a few that were vegan whole foods without either vegan junk or not so healthy processed vegan food. It’ll be fun looking at what this chef creates.
This. Some of the best cooking I have done has been vegan. It really pushes creativity and even more importantly execution. You can prep a protein the same over and over, vegetables not so much. The level of difficulty here to even get consistency is off the charts.