As you know this not work well in a higher end restaurant with well orchestrated service.
For a casual place I totally agree with you.
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With the exception of very high end places, $100 corkage is meant as a deterrent to BYO rather than an attempt to recoup lost revenue.
High end is always an exception. BTW, ran into your buddy Eric from Melody @ Pizza Sei on Sat.
Yup, same with the Bay Area groups I hang with. I also understand why this doesnât work in high-end places.
I find these reasons somewhat dubious or overcomeable, aside from a very high-priced smaller sized restaurant that is typ packed. Iâve had this talk with SOO many owners and somms/directors. The latter often have a compensation interest biasing against corkage, which doesnât look at big picture. One problem thatâs gleaned from convos is that they (understandably) have a tough time measuring how much wine sales theyâre actually missing out on by allowing reasonable corkage to a table, and also how many tables just donât appear.
Iâll go to a place that doesnât allow it at all once. Places that have a one bottle limit will see us very infrequently. Aside from a handful of L.A. spots, I consider above $50 excessive. UNLESS youâre give amazing wine service (not a norm). If you have an amazing list, with aged wine at fair prices it would be different. Thatâs almost non-existent IMO.
I understand that one gets some of a policy altered if one is a preferred guest. I often am, and they sometimes do. Iâd rather not rely on that.
We (5) just went to Hatchet Hall and unlike past visits they limited us to two bottles. Bought a $110 white which was nowhere near as enjoyable as paying $50 to open a third wine we brought. Wine service was decent, but not bad. Waiter, not somm, copped some attitude from the get go which seemed to partially stem from us bringing wine. Despite good food, it added up to a meh, and relatively expensive night that we probably wonât repeat. Maybe only for two, sitting at the bar.
I find that places often become less against corkage as time passes. Because L.A. is a tough restaurant town. To survive you really need to try and offer something attractive to every sort of diner and build a lot of repeats.
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iâd say the exact opposite is happening. (such as your example at Hatchet hall). Less and less restaurants are welcoming people who bring outside wine, even older establishments.
It seems even with the restaurant downturn in 2023, theyâd still rather not have mass corkage users than have them.
They probably look at all the money theyâve invested in wine lists and hope and pray that people will buy wine off the list instead of bringing their own. But itâs difficult to measure the absence of something so all they can do is try to institute policy they hope will drive it. Allowing multiple bottles a person at $30 a btl definitely wonât do that. But maybe allowing two bottles for a party of four at $50 a bottle might get them to open a 3rd bottle (which worked at Hatchet hall and worked on me too at other spots)
What do restaurants do to combat diners who donât drink alcohol at all?
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I have not yet been, but I just added The Neon Sun, in San Pedro, to my need-to-visit list. Same chef that did the menus at Baranâs 2239 and Salt and Pearl. Baranâs 2239 is known for having some of the best breakfast burritos in L.A., and Salt and Pearl is a nice seafood-centric spot in the Hollywood Riviera drag in S. Redondo.
The Neon Sun had their Grand Opening back in September, and â as far as I know â they still welcome folks to BYOB at no charge, as they do not yet have their liquor license.
website: https://theneonsun.com/
Mocktails?
I will be in LA in mid December and was looking at dining at FUNKE. My wife loves pasta and heard good things about it. I figured Iâd ask our resident experts about it. Also any recommendations for brunch or lunch. Iâm staying near Beverly Hills. Thanks in advance
If you enjoy pasta, you wonât be disappointed. As somebody who really liked Felix, Funke was more of the same and a little disappointing in that regard.
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Not everyone wants a Mocktail. What about the diners who simply order water, tea, or coffee? How are they combatted?
poor service? lol
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Thatâs not far from the one answer I could think of: hustle 'em on out of there as quickly as possible. LOL!
Assuming time spent at table is the same (and, yes, I have read up-thread about how corkage users tend to take more time and are more demanding of service), a restaurant stands to profit more off a table that utilizes corkage than they do a table that is only ordering water/tea/coffee. A dining time limit can be imposed to accomplish this. So long as a restaurant allows diners who donât order alcoholic drinks, it stands to reason they âshouldâ (from a business perspective, not a moral perspective) allow corkage, assuming they have the table to fill. Corkage could be restricted on the busiest of nights. ⌠just thinking out loud âŚ
âŚbut, at the end of the day, Iâll say what I always say on this topic: customers are not entitled to corkage at a âreasonableâ rate and they are not entitled to corkage at all; similarly, no restaurant is entitled to any particular personâs patronage. As such, the restaurant will set their corkage policy as they see fit, and folks will make their patronage decisions as they see fit. And thereâs nothing wrong with any of that.
Itâs not a moral issue, and I donât think anyone said it should be. Itâs a strategic coordination issue, which is difficult to resolve while satisfying all parties. The problem is the economics of âqualityâ restaurants, as most of them cannot simultaneously produce high quality food, pay their employees well, and offer sharp prices to the customers. Somewhere something has to give.
Historically, they could inflate prices and cater to the wealthy and then to the expense account set, neither of which were very price sensitive.
These days restaurants need a broader client base, but itâs not clear how broad that client base is, or whether there are enough of them to support all the restaurants that want to exist.
Many were trying to make it work by driving down wages, but thatâs not sustainable. And cutting out tablecloth/laundry bills/etc may get you part of the way there, but itâs not the magic solution (witness threads complaining about subpar glassware).
Yes there will be some altruistic people, like those on this board, who are willing to pay inflated corkage prices/tip excessively, etc, in order to keep these restaurants alive. But I fear that is not a business model for the broad industry.
I wonder if a more stable equilibrium is a world with fewer âqualityâ restaurants, catering to a smaller client base. That would be suboptimal in many ways. But the status quo is also suboptimal, and very stressful for everyone involved!!
Check out any thread about corkage. The sense of entitlement youâll find therein is nauseating, and youâll find lots of comments along the lines of, âRestaurants should offer corkage, on exactly the terms I want.â That sounds like a morality comment to me, and even if it doesnât land that way for others, thatâs the dynamic/comment I had in mind when I gave my disclaimer to which you are responding.
âŚ
Iâve previously said it would probably be good for the restaurant market, as a whole, (at least in Los Angeles) to see a reduction in the supply of restaurants â itâs crazy how often really good restaurants close out here, and I wonder if theyâd survive if there wasnât so much competition. <â Pretty similar, if not identical, to your closing thought. 
Fair enough. There probably is a lot of morality wafting through these arguments. Even though it appears you and I agree!
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Why? The market will determine winners and losers.
My perception is the market is spread so thin that nearly everyone ends-up being a Loser. When excellent restaurants end-up being Losers, that signals to me there is too much supply. You live out here, too â havenât you experienced many restaurants you felt were very good/excellent closing up shop?
All that said, I get your point. Maybe, instead of too much restaurant supply, we have paucity of demand (i.e.: diners)?
donât see a lot of love here for Yangâs Kitchen, in Alhambra (San Gabriel Valley area; south of Pasadena). Their sommelier Jordan (with heavy involvement by the chef/owners Chris and Maggie) does great work with their wine list which I think is fairly priced and very interesting for Berserkers, including a growing selection of Rieslings as well as some champagnes, burgs, etc. The food is delicious with conscientious sourcing from farmersâ markets and other local purveyors. I wouldnât do a corkage-heavy dinner here since they need to turn tables and because I think itâs good to support their wine program, but bringing a nice bottle to share with Jordan/Chris/Maggie can be fun. The KevinEats review of the restaurant and their wine program is pretty accurate, IMO.
A friend also said very good things about Vin Folk, a new place in Hermosa Beach that looks very promising, apparently staff from Somni/Maude.
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