Dunnuck: Downstream w/ JustinSmith

[M_Dildine]

These quotes…

“Cambie brings his nearly savant-like talent to Downstream.“

Savant is not what I would call it.


“Philippe likes to come through right when things are done with malo, usually in early spring and before we’ve blended up our wines, when things are still in individual lots. We put about thirty-two different lots in front of him in groups of four – four Zinfandel lots, four Mataro lots, and so on. He writes his notes down, and then just says, ‘I want 600 L of this, and 400 L of that and 200 L of that.’” Smith says Cambie’s decisions are definitive, and he doesn’t change his mind. When Smith and Verhage tasted the final 2016 – their debut release – Smith says they looked at each other and said “How did he do that?!” Smith describes it as “delicious and ready-to-go.”

And my favorite:

“Grape racism”.

Just stay out of this thread. We know that you think both Cambie and Smith are twin sons of Lucifer because they manage to make wine out of CndP varieties without them tasting like an outhouse in the Loire.

Take that Mr. Alfert!

[M_Dildine]

If you think about it, the Paso/Central Coast area has been a successful incubator for a number of successful Southern Rhonish luxury blends - Grenache, GSM, etc. Not sure what the push-back is as to Zin being included in this company.

Would the world be a better place without SQN, Alban, Saxum …

[Robert.A.Jr]

I have been Hacked! Or is that Hack-Smacked?!

[Steve_Crawford]

the article sorta reads like an ad, to be honest.
im all for them charging whatever they think they can get.
with that being said, the forced set and magnum inclusion is not my cup of tea.

[S_Rash]

Perhaps the Downstream project will provide a little bit of customer recognition/appreciation.

I’m with you on the appreciation of Old Vine Zin and field blends. I love watching Morgon in action with his quest to not only promote and preserve the historic vineyards, but equally important, getting them into the hands of customers that can both afford and appreciate what he is doing. And he is doing a magnificent job of it. This “Zinfrankenstein” by Cambie is the exact opposite of what I would like to see, where the grape gets attention because of the marketing and packaging, the involvement of someone like Cambie, and invariably, one of the ubiquitous critics anointing the wine with some stupid high score. Give me the honest, transparent, $30-$40 Zin that wallows in so-called obscurity, languishing in the critic’s kiss-of-death scoring range of 90-93, any day of the week.

Absolutely agree!!

[Cris_Whetstone]

What Greg said.

It would be horrible/hilarious if there was a sudden surge in triple digit Zinfandel after all these years of sneers.

[Gabe_Berk]

When you add up the cost of land in California, building costs, purchased fruit, consultants, equipment, packaging, insurance, marketing, etc. its easy to see why “new” wineries or projects come out the gate with $200+ bottlings. Owners are hedging their bets that they can produce a wine of great quality with profitable margins regardless of the varietal. Case in point Napa Valley Grenache for $250 a bottle. $175 a bottle Roussane blend in Ventura. Or in this case $200 Zin from Paso. When people are continually buying Cab/Merlot blends in Bordeaux or Chard and Pinot in Burgundy for $300-$3,500 a bottle, they need to realize they are part of the reason these “new kids” prices exist in the first place. Don’t hate the player, hate the game…

[Robert.A.Jr]

Or better yet, don’t play the game. There is a huge universe of excellent wine under $50. It takes a special wine, or moment, for me to pay over $100 for a bottle.

[Michael_Martin]

Or better yet, don’t play the game. There is a huge universe of excellent wine under $50. It takes a special wine, or moment, for me to pay over $100 for a bottle.

[Peter_Valiquette]

He’s all excited about a $200 zin. Does the label even say Zinfandel?

[Greg_K]

I would be delighted if Zinfandel became the hot new thing that Instagram influencers were bringing to wine parties*. Maybe it’ll remove attention from some of the wines I like that are getting too expensive. Why only $200? Cambie and Saxum and Zinfandel? $400 at least!

[Albert_R]

Or better yet, don’t play the game. There is a huge universe of excellent wine under $50. It takes a special wine, or moment, for me to pay over $100 for a bottle.

+1,000

[GregT]

+1001

I understand that the new players have investments that need to be recouped, etc., and Zin is one grape that is under-appreciated by many people, perhaps because it’s so frequently been made into a big, jammy style. (Nothing like the wines Cambie makes, right?)

As to the Saxums and Albans and such - I don’t buy those either. They cost more than wines I prefer.

[Adam_Frisch]

One of my Lodi growers can’t get rid of his old Zin for love or money. He’s begging me to take it off his hands for $700/ton. Literally 1hr away by car in Napa, the same damn Zin is $5K+/ton. Is Napa Zin 7-10 times better than Lodi Zin? It’s like terroir madness has descended on the collective mind of wine buyers. But then, all of a sudden, Teqan/Turley makes some nice old vine Zin from Lodi and - like magic! - we’re willing to pay $80 per bottle for it. Or $200 for Paso Robles Zin when Saxum is involved.

So “shitty” fruit from an uncool area can make great wine with the right winemaker, right? But then Napa/Sonoma tells us, byt the virtue of their fruit prices, that only the good fruit from their very specific region, with just the right conditions, with just the right soil, is what makes good wines. So what is it - terroir matters or winemaking? We need to make up our mind. The wine community seems very confused when it comes to this point.

[markjchambers]

When Saxum Paderewski came out, i thought that was ground breaking at $97 a bottle. It is good, but so are single vineyard Carlisle and Bedrock for half the price which is ¼ the price of Downstream.

[Adam_Henkel]

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