Drinking through France (TNs: Selosse, Angerville, Rougeard, etc.)

[Dav1dZ]

De Moor too, IIRC.

[DougS]

Not true according to the Dressner website. I’m still not seeing where you get “plenty”. I didn’t know about Louis Michel, but I would bet there isn’t anyone else not using any oak at all on GC bottlings.

[scott_c]

@DavidZ

@Nathan V.

@scott c

This is a fantastic post. Loved the story about Au Pont Corbeau, but super depressed that even in France you can’t drink Overnoy!

I can but I was drinking with Eric Texier. We had 2 bottles at a lunch over the summer.

FWIW, I’ve heard through the grapevine (pun intended) that French caves / restaurants are increasingly reluctant to sell wines to Americans that have huge price deltas between the US and France. I can say that nearly everyone we spoke to used winesearcher and was aware of exactly which wines were grossly overpriced in the US. When drinking wines that were “steals” from a US perspective, we made every effort to give a pour to whoever sold to us as a thank you. Waitstaff seemed genuinely appreciative of the gesture.

Not just France. I had a retailer in Germany refuse to sell me Clos Rougeard (saying, essentially, “Why do you deserve to buy my Rougeard?”) unless I bought a bunch of Fritz Haag (which has been delicious, by the way, but I wouldn’t have otherwise bought it!).

[StevenB]

@scott c

Not just France. I had a retailer in Germany refuse to sell me Clos Rougeard (saying, essentially, “Why do you deserve to buy my Rougeard?”) unless I bought a bunch of Fritz Haag (which has been delicious, by the way, but I wouldn’t have otherwise bought it!).

I think this is a good quote. Taking this and also the (by the way greatly written and much appreciated) report of DavidZ of his week in France, it makes me think how narrow minded I (and I think also others) tend to get. Of course, also I myself don’t say no when there’s Overnoy or Rougeard on a restaurant list for a good price. I even sometimes order them if they are actually a bit too young. I don’t have fixed allocations on both producers and only get a few bottles here and there, even from those merchants I regularly buy other stuff from. But this very focused restaurant ordering makes me miss out on other good stuff where I don’t have to beg each year to get a few bottles. It’s mostly in restaurants in France where I got the best inspiration on which producers to visit, follow and regularly buy. But this only works when ordering stuff I don’t already know or following recommendations from the somms or restaurant owners. I’ve never had Côte Rotie from Jean-Michel Gerin, only the “La Champine” Syrah and the St. Joseph (both on recommendation from sommeliers in France), and I really liked both and looked for sources to buy them from. On my own, I would never have sought out that particular producer.

[William_Kelley]

I’m surprised to find myself in the minority in admiring the 2009s from Raveneau—at least the Clos and MdT that I enjoyed in February. A bit more rounded and approachable than particularly focused vintages such as 2010 or 2012 for sure, but pretty classical, and much more interesting than many of the 2009 Cote de Beaune whites to my mind. It is said that Raveneau use some new oak each year to refresh the barrels in the cellar, and I have heard that each year the new wood is allocated to a different cuvée and thus might make a more pronounced impression, but this is just hearsay. Certainly one-, two- and three-year-old barrels are very far from being neutral in any case. But either way, stylistic comparisons with Rombauer seem just a little hyperbolic to my mind.

Regarding Chablis made exclusively in stainless steel, that’s absolutely correct about Louis Michel. Picq also use 100% stainless steel, though they have no grand crus.

My suspicion is that sommeliers etc in France are sometimes inclined to see the pursuit of Clos Rougeard, Overnoy, etc as being merely the latest manifestation of the herd mentality which had, and has, people chasing “100-point wines”. Frankly, there can be some truth in that. I always feel a bit diffident when heading straight to the Coche on the wine list, but honestly sometimes it would be crazy not to.

[Panos_Kakaviatos]

Thanks for sharing your experiences David, fun to read. Too bad about the rainy start, but the weather got better later. Yes, after Paris, good on you to have gone to Baden Baden. At Brenner Hotel I have hosted on rare occasions wine tastings, and the site is just really relaxing. I am glad that I could help with Strasbourg. Vino Strada does have a rather amazing wine list and the couple who own the joint are a study in contrasts. Husband Stephan is tirelessly hedonistic, always talking about wines he has tasted and latest acquisitions he gets while his wife Isabelle is more serious about the business side of things. The boat bar also has “after work” parties first Wednesdays of each month, so it becomes a disco on the lower deck. I once organised a vertical of Sociando Mallet for work colleagues, many at the Council of Europe, where I have my day job. Anyway, I digress! Thanks for sharing - and if anyone plans to come to Strasbourg, let me know.

[P_ONeill]

Interesting comments on the Raveneaux, which echoed my few recent notes on the 09 Foret (albeit not the domaine’s best holdings). Dull and flabby, which I attributed to the vintage, but I also think the old chestnut of Raveneau needing a shedload of age has something to do with it. I have a few bottles of 01 Blanchots and while early bottles were similarly clunky, the most recent bottle a couple years ago had morphed into something pretty special. I see no downside in keeping my remaining few 09 Forets in storage for some time to see what happens.

But if it ain’t your thing……

Great notes. Thanks for the writeup.