A few years ago, I served blind to some friends a Drouhin Beaune Clos de Mouches and a Drouhin Laurene from Oregon. Everyone (including our wives who know wine pretty well but are not as geeky about it as the husbands) was able to tell which was from Burgundy and which was from Oregon by smelling the two wines. Tasting confirmed how different the two wines, but the differences were extremely apparent just from the noses. No, the difference is not all branding.
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Does it strike anyone else as odd that one of the most amazing things about Burgundy is that wines from vineyards just across the road from each other can taste so different - and we rightly celebrate those differences - but that we are talking here about how successful a New World winery would be if it made wines that tastes like a place thousands of miles away?
Adam Lee
Clarice Wine Company
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Thank you for saying that. I have long held the same thought. If you went west to make “Burgundian-style” Pinot, I think you compass was broken, and should have headed east…to Burgundy.
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Wasn’t that the whole thesis behind Rhys, to make the most Burgundian-style wines in the US?
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I think that’s a touch myopic. That is indeed one small feature of Burgundy, but certainly not the main selling point.
I agree that California wines should be judged on their own merits and not based on whether they taste like their counterparts in Bordeaux, Burgundy or whatever. However, I have the right to choose among the wines of the world which I prefer and which I don’t like enough to buy and drink. For me, I have found a number of California Cabernet that I like and buy on their own merits, but have not found that to be true with domestic Pinot Noirs with limited exceptions.
Also, I don’t think the issue in this case is whether the resulting wine would taste like Burgundy (I also don’t think a Volnay should taste like a Vosne Romanee) but whether the wine made tastes of its terroir or of excess alcohol and wood. True if we are talking about Burgundy or domestic Pinots. A generation ago, too many Burgundy producers tried marketing “Parkerized” Burgundies and the Burgundy lovers rejected them. Too bad, the same thing did not happen in Bordeaux.
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Howard, what was the style of “Parkerized” Burgundy? I knew of the trend in Bordeaux, Napa, and Australia, but don’t recall it in Burgundy. I mean, I can probably guess, but figured I’d ask.
There’s surprisingly decent number of wines and wineries operating with older vines. Eyrie is an obvious one as they still have most of their original plantings dating back into the sixties and seventies. We make Shafer Vineyard (1972 vines), Durant Biahop Block (1973 vines), Hyland Vineyard (combo of 1972 and 1989 vines), Ridgecrest Vineyard (1982 vines) and Weber Vineyard (1983 vines). Also used to produce Medici Vineyard from 2015-2021 which was from 1976 and 1980 vines. Kelley Fox has her Maresh Vineyard bottlings that date back to 1970 (and obviously Arterberry-Maresh does as well). She also has some Carter Vineyard fruit that is either late 70s or early 80s. Cameron and anyone producing from Abbey Ridge Vineyard is using 45+ year old vines. Bethel Heights has vines dating into the 70s (I know they have had phylloxera but to what extent I don’t know). There are assuredly others that I am either too dim or insufficiently informed to know about.
My experience with those wines is what one would expect. Intensity, tension, minerality, precision and elegance ramp up and “typical” domestic fruitiness drops back. Winemaking style can always alter the course of what vines can bring to the table. I admit to cleaning been surprised about the fruit density and more overt oak prowess of the DDO wines.
There are a number of truly older vine bottlings in Oregon by legit producers.
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This is where defining “Burgundian” matters as no one should be trying to make Volnay in CA, OR, or WA. Instead Burgundian should refer to lower alcohol, stem inclusion, judicious use of oak, natural ferments, sense of site transparency, and while it isn’t possible to mirror Clos de Beze, CdB can certainly be an inspiration for a wine or a site where the grapes remind you of an old world site, knowing once you pick that man’s intervention makes or breaks the dynamic you are trying to achieve.
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So a Burgundian sensibility, influenced by Burgundian techniques.
Honesty that’s what I thought the “Burgundian” US wineries were doing, rather than trying to recreate a specific Burgundy wine.
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I would also put in the climate in which the grapes are grown as well and is why I find “cooler region” domestic PN to be more “Burgundian”.
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Kris
Henri Jayer is rolling over in his grave with you mentioning “stem inclusion” as defining Burgundian.
Adam Lee
Clarice Wine Company
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Couldn’t agree more with Adam. The thing I look for most in domestic pinot is balance and depth. Not fruit bombs. But the flavor profile is very different. Especially as they age.
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And the innumerable high end domaines that use 100% new oak.
If it’s a top Domaine and there’s a lot of new oak, there’s a lot of Grand Cru depth where the oak creates balance after a few years. Of course there’s also plenty of lazy Domaines in France producing subpar wines from amazing vineyards if that’s what you choose to make your domestic target.
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I get that you aren’t an entirely unbiased source, but the myopic nitpicking seems trite.
Others may have other thoughts, but I think of them as being wines using Guy Accad as a consultant for winemaking. [I understand that his thoughts on grape growing are held in higher regard.]
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Says the guy who drags down anything that isn’t DRC.
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Howard
Indeed, Accad was who first came to mind when “Parkerized Burgundies” was brought up. Interestingly, Guy was channeling (so to speak) a past history of Burgundy in his making of wine. So, while Parker was a fan - it was actually an old technique.
Burgundy - and Pinot Noir - always seems a bit like baseball to me - where we concentrate o the tiny details. It is something I find fascinating. We can chat about ripeness levels and depending on how far we go back we are all correct. .
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Henri Jayer’s biggest thing was 100% destemming. I wouldn’t call that nitpicking.