Oh, Bern’s cellars are no colder than any other good wine cellar. Keep in mind the real oldies there spent their first few decades of life elsewhere, anyway. (They opened in the late '50s - obviously didn’t buy their 1924s on futures.) So you, too, can have a Bern’s-quality cellar! All you need is a good cooling unit, a few decades to spare, and unlimited buying power
Egads! I’ll need to retaste Lanessan 16’. Context counts and coming after Les Grands Chênes, I could have overplayed the comparison in favor of the former.
In all fairness, Panos, I need to try it again as well. I did that a couple times with the 2015 but never did take to it. I have some more Lanessan for sampling, along with the 2016 Cambon La Pelouse. I do not like giving up on either of these wines that have performed so admirably in the past for my narrow palate.
Well after reading this thread and many others about how well “modern” Bordeaux is drinking lately I figured I would start trying a few. After all if Bordeaux is becoming more like Napa then this will be right up my alley. Admittedly I do really like big extracted Cali reds from ripe vintages but I also like many of the leaner vintages and lighter reds. Walking thru Total Wine today I see a 97 point 2016 Chateau Bellevue and figure what the heck. I chilled it and poured a third of it in the decanter. I drank slowly over 3 hours and must say it wasn’t an enjoyable experience. I tried to like this wine. If I had to rate this tonight it would be 86ish. Subdued nose, firm tannins, sour cherries. I will drink the rest over the next couple of days and see what happens. I hope to come back to this in a couple days and say now I get it. I want to love Bordeaux. So much history and tradition. I am looking at a few other early drinking ‘16s as well to try soon. The limited experience I have had with aged Bordeaux hasn’t helped either. Might just be time to buy a few great bottles with age and see what I think.
At increasing price points starting low $20’s, here are some bottled 2016’s I have tasted last few months, and liked them all, with high hopes for down the road: Lillian Ladouys, Potensac, Dame de Montrose, Branaire Ducru. Yes you will fine some firmness from fine tannins, and while enjoyable now, some of the enjoyment is indeed from projecting to a few years down the road.
Larry, I would agree with Jim’s recommendations for someone who likes Bordeaux. They won’t ring the same chimes as a big extracted Napa cab. Nor will most of the wines we complain about being too modern. It’s all relative. If you want to try a fairly inexpensive Napa-esque Bordeaux, I’d recommend Quinault L’Enclos, but it’s not going to make you think you’re drinking a big To-Kalon cab.
If what you’re looking for is the aged Bordeaux experience, leaving your 2016 Bellevue (or any young Bordeaux) open for a few days won’t do it. Buying a few aged bottles is a great idea. A lot of 1989s are drinking well, as are many 1996 left bank and 1998 right bank wines, and some 2000s are getting there. There’s always some provenance/storage risk, but the only way to find out if you like aged Bordeaux is to drink some.
I agree with David across the board. In addition to Quinault, try Fleur Cardinale. I find both of these wines OTT for my palate, i.e., too extracted, oaky, higher alcohol. But they may work for you given your acknowledgment of what you like, your palate.
If you decide to grab something with age, and perhaps spend a bit more to compete with the Napa pricing, I recommend going to something like 2003 Chateau Cos d’Estournel, or Pavie from 2000, 03 or 05. Go for the solar vintages.
I brought that Cos last year to a client dinner at a popular steak house that is known for over-spicing their meats and having lots of big Napas and cults. I knew my client would order some of that Cabs, so wanted to see how the Cos lined up, and I also was thinking that perhaps there is something that I would drink, begrudgingly. Everyone at that table preferred the Cos. While it’s not my style of wine, it worked in that context for me. I’m betting you would like it very much.
I didn’t find the 03 Cos to be at all similar to a big Napa Cab. I can see how the fruitier, richer style would appeal to those who find left bank Bordeaux too earthy, but that’s different than saying it actually tastes like a big Cali cab. The Cos has much lower alcohol (13.5) and a much lighter body than a big Napa and probably more freshness too.
Yes, Marcu$, but that’s the point. The modern, ripe, fruity, oaky Bordeaux are Napa-esque, having more in common with a big, extracted Cabernet than a classic Bordeaux if you look at the individual elements on paper. Yet still very different from Napa in the mouth.
This thread, the old favorite Vincent Price/Peter Lorre blind tasting clip that Blake posted, and the reminiscences about the passing of the eRP board reminded me of another favorite Parker episode. This predated the Squires board if my memory serves (not a given), and happened back in the Prodigy days. Parker got into it with Robert Callahan over Bdx vs. Napa and being able to tell the difference blind. Yes, these arguments were going on 25+ years ago. Callahan was an early and frequent Parker antagonist. I think he was the inspiration for or maybe founder with Chris Coad for Wine Asylum(?) that eventually became Wine Disorder? Others who know more can correct me, but I digress…
Parker called out Callahan and challenged him and another 10 or so Prodigy-ites to a blind Bdx vs. Cali tasting in Baltimore. At Parker’s expense. I think RP supplied the wines but they were all single blind - i.e. everyone knew what was in the lineup. Some might say it was an early demonstration of RP not being willing to let criticism pass, but it was done after months of unrelenting criticism and seemed to me to be presented in the form of a friendly put up or shut up challenge. Callahan did poorly, blaming a cold and travel fatigue, but most others got most of them right. Callahan was mercilessly ridiculed by many Parker fans, but I don’t recall Bob being ungracious. That was back in the day when Parker was my wine Virgil (early 90s?) so my memory may be colored.
I had discussions with Robert about this episode in the late 90s/early 2000s. (The showdown itself was just before my vinous time.) He had a wicked cold that day. Anyone who knew Callahan personally back then — he has been a veritable hermit unfortunately for a long time now for reasons I won’t get into — knew how good a taster he was. (He may even be lurking here. Hi Robert.) And he called bullshit on the big, ripe, and/or manipulated wines that Parker seemed to love as vocally then as anyone. He wound up being probably my first mentor into fine wine, suffering my newbie questions even though he wasn’t much older than I was. He is also of course the absentee subject of one of the greatest pieces of wine writing ever, Coad’s Waiting for Callahan.
He did not start Wine Asylum. A number of us WLDG folks moved away to the existing but sparsely populated Wine Asylum when we decided it was time to find a new home. It didn’t last long because Callahan started and moderated Wine Therapy, where Chris (and I) were participants. My recollection is that, many years later, Serge the Scourge hacked and corrupted Wine Therapy (during a period of time I was not as active due to work), and Wine Disorder was started out of the ashes by others.
Haha, I remember that entire episode. The killer was Bob bringing his current (at the time) Beaux Freres, which Callahan had been disparaging, but liked it at the tasting ( there was maybe some revisionist history after the tasting) and was a bit agitated about it being a ringer. Full disclosure-I did not attend, did not volunteer to attend (sadly), but followed the entire episode online. Lurked I guess it could be called. But, of the 2, Bob was certainly the gracious one and put up all of the wine for the event as I recall.
Thanks Jayson, I knew I had my history messed up. It was Wine Therapy, not Wine Asylum that I was trying to remember.
I never knew Callahan personally and I wish him well. It sucks that he was essentially disabled for that tasting and his treatment by the Parker acolytes afterwards was uncalled for. It was an early peek into what would eventually become the Achilles heel of the eRP Squires Board.
What I liked about the episode was Parker’s willingness to bring a bunch of people together in what looked to be a good-natured effort to see how well people were at differentiating Bdx from Cali. Which finally brings me back to my response about Bdx that “mimics” Napa Cab: most with a moderate amount of experience (and a working sniffer) can tell the difference more often than not, even in blind tasting where it’s so easy to lose your way. I think it would be harder today than 25 years ago.
IIRC, Parker lied by stating before the tasting that he would not include Beaux Freres, Callahan took him at his word and guessed something else, then Parker sycophants mocked Callahan for what really amounted to trusting Parker to be honest.
I’m somewhat biased, as I was a huge Parker fan when I joined Prodigy. I found Callahan to be rude and disrespectful toward Parker and honestly thought he was a bit of a charlatan with his ridiculous praise for second rate wines like Coudert Beaujolais, Pepiere Muscadet, Baudry Chinon, Clos Roche Blanche Côt, and similar crap from obscure regions. Keep in mind that this was more than 20 years ago when Garnet was about the only store in the US that even carried these wines. Callahan’s persistence, determination, obvious intelligence, and excellent writing, coupled with my own contrarian nature, eventually persuaded me to stop by Garnet to meet him when in NY for an incredible Bordeaux offline. He put together a mixed case of some of the wines that he had been praising and those bottles totally changed my perspectives on wine, Callahan, and Parker.
This. (For folks, he worked behind the scenes at Garnet, and was in charge of their website when Garnet was Garnet and before David Lillie left to open Chambers.)
Somewhere on the interwebs there is an account of the Parker/Callahan tasting, I forget whose - maybe can be salvaged from the Squires board before it goes down - but it’s a fascinating piece of history. This was from a simpler time when many drew the battle lines between old world and new world, as opposed to traditional vs. modern, because at the time the former was a much more reliable proxy for the latter than it is now (this was way before anyone became internet-famous making trousseau or low-alc mourvedre in California). The key point being that the old world wines Parker chose were exactly the old world wines you would choose if you wanted to puzzle people on what’s what - like, if I remember correctly, he served Guigal La Las, Coche, maybe Marcassin or Kistler or whatever. Let’s just say that if you want to prove that people who don’t share Parker’s taste in wine are full of it, mixing up old world Parker favorites with new world Parker favorites is not the best of all possible evidence. I.e., he wasn’t exactly pouring Gentaz and Truchot.
Found it! I have no idea whose page this is: Paradise at the Milton, wine-people.com
It also links to Mark Squires’ account: Mark Squires' E-zine, November/December 1996
It’s mostly like what I said above but even trickier. Coche-Dury and Leroy white burgundies mixed not just with Marcassin but with Chalone and Mt Eden chardonnays. Guigal La Landonne followed by Edmunds St. John Durrell Vineyard! So not exactly a mystery why someone with an old world palate is going to end up preferring CA to FR in that context.
Admittedly I do really like big extracted Cali reds from ripe vintages but I also like many of the leaner vintages and lighter reds. Walking thru Total Wine today I see a 97 point 2016 Chateau Bellevue and figure what the heck. I chilled it and poured a third of it in the decanter. I drank slowly over 3 hours and must say it wasn’t an enjoyable experience. I tried to like this wine. If I had to rate this tonight it would be 86ish. Subdued nose, firm tannins, sour cherries. I will drink the rest over the next couple of days and see what happens. I hope to come back to this in a couple days and say now I get it. I want to love Bordeaux. So much history and tradition. I am looking at a few other early drinking ‘16s as well to try soon. The limited experience I have had with aged Bordeaux hasn’t helped either. Might just be time to buy a few great bottles with age and see what I think.