Do you need to drink lesser wines to appreciate the great ones?

[Anton_D]

Now for a different point of view. Someone once said to me that I should never have tasted a wine selling for more than $5 a bottle (this was probably 20 years ago so maybe $10 or $15 today). He said that if I had never had a bottle costing more than $5, I would be very happy with the wines I was drinking and drink happily while spending a modest amount of money. But, once I tasted better wines, I was lost - spending more money for wine and could not go back to the cheaper wine because now it tasted cheaper.

I recall an episode of the Canadian sitcom “Corner Gas,” when a couple goes to another couple’s house and are served a more expensive wine than the one they normally drink, then they go back the next night to the wine they had always had and discover that they don’t like it anymore. I think the woman exclaimed in dismay that “We’ve been upgraded!!”

That’s true of many things. At one point in our lives, an inexpensive choice sirloin with A1 sauce on it was a special treat.

I wonder about that with my kids (age 10 and 14). They have been upgraded by my tastes and cooking, so my son is used to eating prime ribeye and so forth nowadays. It’s probably not ideal, but then, I’m only on this planet for so long, and I don’t want to eat London Broil for dinner on Saturday night just so I won’t spoil my kids. What are you going to do?

That’s awesome.

We have ‘strived’ to wreck our kids’ and nieces’ and nephews’ palates. Now, they are out ‘wrecking’ their friends’ palates…yay!

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

I have yet to meet a fellow oenophile who started with only great wines and stayed the course of never having lesser wines.

I’d say having tasted a variety of wines leads one to understand what one considers great, necessitating that one have worked one’s way through ‘lesser wines.’

Therefore, having had ‘lesser’ wines is paramount to discovering what one regards as great wines.

I think probably 0% of us have made it to this point without having had a great many experiences of drinking lesser wines.

So the question rephrases then to be “Do you need to continue drinking lesser wines to appreciate the great ones.” That is a tougher question.

I guess my answer would be this:

(1) I don’t think you need to adhere to a deliberate regimen of drinking one bottle of $20 Bourgogne for every Premier or Grand Cru in order to continue appreciating the latter, and if you are blessed with the means and the cellar to drink mostly high quality wines (and who knows how many years each of us has left to drink them), then I don’t think there is anything wrong with doing so, or that you will lose your appreciation for them.

(2) But I think you will probably appreciate the good and great wines more if you have them as part of a varied overall experience of wine. Not just varied as to price point and quality, but varied as to grapes, regions, age, style, and so forth.

I think both of these are spot on.

I don’t set out to drink a bottle of $20 wine for every elite wine that I drink, but over the course of life a lot of average-good-surprisingly great bottles cross my path. I can’t imagine declining to taste because of perceived stature(and it is just perceived until we taste it). If it’s not to my liking, I have no problem declining a second taste, but I have a lot of what I consider to be “great” wines in my cellar from time spent sharing a glass of a “lesser” wine(both from being shocked at how great the “lesser” wine actually was, and from shooting the breeze with another wine lover over a decent glass.)

[lleichtman]

At some point, yes, for a point of reference. But once you’ve got adequate experience, it doesn’t have to be repeated regularly to continue to appreciate the great ones.

One of the great advantages of being in a blind tasting group for the last 21 years is that I taste stuff from up and down the quality ladder on a regular basis. The experience is both humbling and educational. It has kept me grounded in the broader world of wine, rather than just the narrow focus of wines I choose to buy.

this

+2

[Jayson_Cohen]

Which leads me to the reverse and to me perhaps more interesting question - do you need to drink great wines to appreciate the lesser ones? I’m inclined to say yes to that one. I find that I appreciate and enjoy village wines more for having tried the “greater” grand crus.

I think yes. And it’s a more important Q in a broader sense for people here, who generally don’t drink really “lesser” wines in a meaningful way. No one here really cares about Yellow Tail, but folks here certainly do compare say the greatest versions of Syrah like Chave Hermitage or Verset / Allemand Cornas to Crozes or St. Joseph (arguably lesser wines). If I didn’t know Chave Hermitage or Verset / Allemand Cornas, I wouldn’t know how to put say even a very very good wine like Gonon St. Joseph into perspective in comparison with other St. Joseph. If I didn’t know what Donnhoff has achieved in his single vineyard wines, I’m not sure I’d appreciate as much how good the “lowly” domaine Riesling is.

But this gets more into the weeds on defining “lesser” wine, which is a point of ambiguity in this thread as noted by others above.

Also many of the other comments in the thread address this question already by stressing that experience and context matter. More knowledge, more experience gives you a basis for multivariate comparisons.

[Howard_Cooper]

Howard, your post is spot on.

Of course, to really appreciate a good bottle of Bordeaux, you have to taste one of those under-ripe reds they produce in the Loire valley. Luckily, most are now bought and hoarded by a weird swamp-living hermit in Florida, who looks like Luke Skywalker in Episode VIII (rumour has it that he hurls perfectly good bottles of St.Emilion at alligators, shouting about the Dark Side).

I understand that he hurls these bottles from the seat of a very expensive bicycle while wearing a really nice watch and shoes.

[Anton_D]

Howard, your post is spot on.

Of course, to really appreciate a good bottle of Bordeaux, you have to taste one of those under-ripe reds they produce in the Loire valley. Luckily, most are now bought and hoarded by a weird swamp-living hermit in Florida, who looks like Luke Skywalker in Episode VIII (rumour has it that he hurls perfectly good bottles of St.Emilion at alligators, shouting about the Dark Side).

I understand that he hurls these bottles from the seat of a very expensive bicycle while wearing a really nice watch and shoes.

Is that the guy with calf implants and his business’ phone number on his ‘cycling jersey?’

[Howard_Cooper]

Now for a different point of view. Someone once said to me that I should never have tasted a wine selling for more than $5 a bottle (this was probably 20 years ago so maybe $10 or $15 today). He said that if I had never had a bottle costing more than $5, I would be very happy with the wines I was drinking and drink happily while spending a modest amount of money. But, once I tasted better wines, I was lost - spending more money for wine and could not go back to the cheaper wine because now it tasted cheaper.

I recall an episode of the Canadian sitcom “Corner Gas,” when a couple goes to another couple’s house and are served a more expensive wine than the one they normally drink, then they go back the next night to the wine they had always had and discover that they don’t like it anymore. I think the woman exclaimed in dismay that “We’ve been upgraded!!”

That’s true of many things. At one point in our lives, an inexpensive choice sirloin with A1 sauce on it was a special treat.

I wonder about that with my kids (age 10 and 14). They have been upgraded by my tastes and cooking, so my son is used to eating prime ribeye and so forth nowadays. It’s probably not ideal, but then, I’m only on this planet for so long, and I don’t want to eat London Broil for dinner on Saturday night just so I won’t spoil my kids. What are you going to do?

At different times both my daughter and the husband of my neice (now my nephew) told me that they did not like Chardonnay. It was mostly based on overoaked modern chardonnay. I gave them white Burgundy to try. Cannot remember the wine with my daughter but with my nephew it was a Sauzet premier cru Puligny Montrachet (not sure of the vineyard or vintage). The wines opened their eyes and now, for my daughter at least, her favorite wine is white Burgundy (including Chablis). Did I help them or ruin them. I would go with helped them because they did NOT like Chardonnay before.

PS. As a side note, on their honeymoon, my neice and nephew went to Germany. They asked me to recommend a winery or two to visit and I gave them a few recommendations. They visited Donnhoff - which I think is now his favorite winery.

[Dave_McCloskey]

At some point, yes, for a point of reference. But once you’ve got adequate experience, it doesn’t have to be repeated regularly to continue to appreciate the great ones.

One of the great advantages of being in a blind tasting group for the last 21 years is that I taste stuff from up and down the quality ladder on a regular basis. The experience is both humbling and educational. It has kept me grounded in the broader world of wine, rather than just the narrow focus of wines I choose to buy.

Great comment and consider yourself lucky. I’ve belonged to a wine club for about the past 7 or 8 years and have never been involved in a blind tasting. Although I hatching a plan to bring a brown bagged bottle and see if anyone can guess where it comes from and the varietal.

[Jim_Stewart]

Now for a different point of view. Someone once said to me that I should never have tasted a wine selling for more than $5 a bottle (this was probably 20 years ago so maybe $10 or $15 today). He said that if I had never had a bottle costing more than $5, I would be very happy with the wines I was drinking and drink happily while spending a modest amount of money. But, once I tasted better wines, I was lost - spending more money for wine and could not go back to the cheaper wine because now it tasted cheaper.

I recall an episode of the Canadian sitcom “Corner Gas,” when a couple goes to another couple’s house and are served a more expensive wine than the one they normally drink, then they go back the next night to the wine they had always had and discover that they don’t like it anymore. I think the woman exclaimed in dismay that “We’ve been upgraded!!”

That’s true of many things. At one point in our lives, an inexpensive choice sirloin with A1 sauce on it was a special treat.

I wonder about that with my kids (age 10 and 14). They have been upgraded by my tastes and cooking, so my son is used to eating prime ribeye and so forth nowadays. It’s probably not ideal, but then, I’m only on this planet for so long, and I don’t want to eat London Broil for dinner on Saturday night just so I won’t spoil my kids. What are you going to do?

good stuff, Chris

[Jay_Miller]

Now for a different point of view. Someone once said to me that I should never have tasted a wine selling for more than $5 a bottle (this was probably 20 years ago so maybe $10 or $15 today). He said that if I had never had a bottle costing more than $5, I would be very happy with the wines I was drinking and drink happily while spending a modest amount of money. But, once I tasted better wines, I was lost - spending more money for wine and could not go back to the cheaper wine because now it tasted cheaper.

Hi Fi works the same way.

And kitchen knives.

[Mike_Grammer]

Would the greatest sex of your life be as ‘profound’ without the ‘lesser’ sex?

It’s none of your business what I do when I’m alone.

I’m still looking for the YouTube channel, Craig. Aliases?

Jay M’s question—do you need to drink great wines to appreciate the lesser ones–is one I like too.

[Mattstolz]

this question is something that can’t ever have a single answer. because for that to happen, you would first be able to have an objective single answer for “what makes a wine a great wine?”

since that answer will vary wildly for everyone, so will the answer to the OP. for example, most people are using DRC as an example of a “great” wine. What if you don’t like DRC? Most are using First growths as an example, but what if it doesn’t resonate with your palate? What if you like young wines more than old ones? if you actually would like California Pinot more than Burgundy but all you buy is DRC, then you missed the boat.

I guess this would kind of put me into the “yes” category. I think eventually you have to be reminded of WHY you appreciate the wines you consider great. at the same time, if something resonates with you, you should drink that.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Now for a different point of view. Someone once said to me that I should never have tasted a wine selling for more than $5 a bottle (this was probably 20 years ago so maybe $10 or $15 today). He said that if I had never had a bottle costing more than $5, I would be very happy with the wines I was drinking and drink happily while spending a modest amount of money. But, once I tasted better wines, I was lost - spending more money for wine and could not go back to the cheaper wine because now it tasted cheaper.

Hi Fi works the same way.

And kitchen knives.

+1

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

I’d say it is necessary to have tasted vintages across a range of styles to get a handle on what you like but once you’ve done that you don’t have to keep buying vintages that you think you won’t enjoy as much.

For example I’m glad to have tasted (and therefore have an opinion on ) multiple 2004 burgundies even though it’s arguably the worst vintage of the last 30 years. however if another 2004 came around I would not be a buyer. Even if I was still buying Burgundy.

Sometimes a village wine can be heartbreakingly beautiful even if it doesn’t have the depth or complexity of a grand cru.

I don’t think anyone would claim that dandelions are more beautiful than roses but sometimes a field full of dandelions in the spring can take your breath away. And wouldn’t be improved by replacing them with rose bushes.


This is, of course, different from wines that are actually poorly made (e.g., Christian Confuron to continue with the Burgundy examples). There the only advantage to tasting them is to know to avoid them in the future.


Which leads me to the reverse and to me perhaps more interesting question - do you need to drink great wines to appreciate the lesser ones? I’m inclined to say yes to that one. I find that I appreciate and enjoy village wines more for having tried the “greater” grand crus.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Great post,as beautiful as butterflies are, I prefer moths.

[John_Glas]

yes. There are so many good wines out there under $30 I like but are not as great as some of the best wines I ever tasted however for the price point and enjoyment they are wonderful. It is fun to try a wine that is around $50 that is a 95 for my palate. Those wines I can afford!

[Anton_D]

Would the greatest sex of your life be as ‘profound’ without the ‘lesser’ sex?

It’s none of your business what I do when I’m alone.

I’m still looking for the YouTube channel, Craig. Aliases?

Jay M’s question—do you need to drink great wines to appreciate the lesser ones–is one I like too.

I hear Craig uses his “marriage hand” to swirl his wine and gets a lot more release of essence than the average oenophile.

[Anton_D]

I’d say it is necessary to have tasted vintages across a range of styles to get a handle on what you like but once you’ve done that you don’t have to keep buying vintages that you think you won’t enjoy as much.

For example I’m glad to have tasted (and therefore have an opinion on ) multiple 2004 burgundies even though it’s arguably the worst vintage of the last 30 years. however if another 2004 came around I would not be a buyer. Even if I was still buying Burgundy.

Sometimes a village wine can be heartbreakingly beautiful even if it doesn’t have the depth or complexity of a grand cru.

I don’t think anyone would claim that dandelions are more beautiful than roses but sometimes a field full of dandelions in the spring can take your breath away. And wouldn’t be improved by replacing them with rose bushes.


This is, of course, different from wines that are actually poorly made (e.g., Christian Confuron to continue with the Burgundy examples). There the only advantage to tasting them is to know to avoid them in the future.


Which leads me to the reverse and to me perhaps more interesting question - do you need to drink great wines to appreciate the lesser ones? I’m inclined to say yes to that one. I find that I appreciate and enjoy village wines more for having tried the “greater” grand crus.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Great post,as beautiful as butterflies are, I prefer moths.

Oh, great, here comes three pages of fighting about the moth/butterfly issue.
For completeness, just making an internet joke, in general.