My thoughts- I don’t care if they own the land, I care if they have control over the farming.
And in many cases they do. They get to determine what is done and when. I don’t see how that is all that different from growing the grapes themselves, except for mortgage payments and additional staff costs.
Gerard, you nailed it. Of the 10 vineyards we source from, we control 8 of them. The other two are usual trials or other reasons like small amounts of fruit.
Paul,
Buying the land and planting or buying a preexisting vineyard rarely pencil’s. If it does pencil, it’s rarely an exciting site with good fruit.
I have learned early on that buying land isn’t necessary and I have also learned that I can play on the same street on the true coast as others who have spent millions upon millions of dollars and who’s wines are 50%+ more expensive because of all their capex. Think Marcassin, Schrader Aston, Peter Michael, Pahlmeyer
Often leasing land and planting can and does pencil. The issue is that you can put your heart and soul into a vineyard and then have to return it in 20 year’s time with nothing to show for it so it’s a catch 22.
First, this whole “your winemaker” concept is a crock – do I/we directly employ any of them?
No.
Which means none of us has any right to refer to any winemaker in such an entitled context.
…
As for the question at hand, I’m so entirely unconcerned about this it’s just silly.
Why?
Because at it’s core, this is a question of TRUST.
Do I TRUST my favorite winemakers – meaning all those who make incredible wines for the labels I choose to buy from – to select great fruit?
Hell YES.
Wow…folks really showing their stuff on this thread.
Join the fun Merrill. It’s a rainy Sunday
He’s probably in a foul mood because the Packers lost!
After reading this thread, I think some counterpoint might be needed. While it is possible to find great fruit from great sites with great farming, I think these opportunities are hard to find. Not only does vineyard ownership allow for total integration of winemaking, winegrowing and style but it also provides the opportunity to fine tune and iterate every aspect that produces quality in the resulting wine .
For example each year as we make our barrel selections for vineyard designates, Jeff (winemaker), Javier (viticulturist) and I will taste through every small block of our vineyards and evaluate the resulting wine. Our conclusions can lead to a variety of action items. These could include different vineyard techniques (pruning, tilling, rootstock, cover crops, leafing) or different winemaking for that block (extraction, stem inclusion, barrel, fermentation temperature etc) and in extreme examples might even result in a block being regrafted or replanted with plant material that we think would be better suited. Repeating this level of control and fine tuning over many vintages allows for continued optimization and learning that should yield results in the glass. On top of that, we have experienced the vineyard daily throughout the growing season. It is possible to track which parts of the vineyard were challenged or exceptionally balanced, or earlier to flower etc. This is incredibly important when it is time to make pick decisions and divide areas or blocks along lines of ripeness. It also allows a “closed loop” where we can connect what we saw in the vineyard with what is in the glass.
Owning a vineyard is extraordinarily expensive. In fact we can buy fruit at a lower price per ton than the farming regime, per ton, that we choose to employ (without including consideration for the very high cost of the vineyard itself). I am a little dismayed that wine enthusiasts don’t see why this is important. With that said, I do believe that at the end of the day all that matters is the quality of the wine in glass and there are many great wines made from purchased fruit.
We don’t directly employ politicians but most people typically refer to them as “our elected leaders”. What is the difference? I buy the wine allowing my winemaker to make a living. We elect politicians allowing them to rip us off. Ok, so a little bit of difference…but not really.
Kevin,
I do see that it can be important. I don’t believe it’s the be all and end all of making good wine. Frequent blind tastings have proven that. Sorry, but it’s true.
Count me lucky finding multiple sites…
The risk is also quite high buying land as by the time you buy and plant, the site might just be a good one vs. a great one. Buying fruit means you can just walk away if the quality isn’t there.
We try almost 2 or 3 vineyards every year as we continue searching for those needles in the hay stack.
Your postulation is convenient and flawed ![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}
. . . But I agree 100%. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
I have to admit being very surprised by this thread. And yes, I do drink a few California wines from winemakers that purchase fruit, Copain and Bedrock being examples.
Could be romanticism, could be sentinmentality, but when I drink a wine like Levet, I think of a wine that was made 95% in the vineyard, with minimal intervention from the winemaker himself after harvest.
Proven to whom? Proven conclusively such that no other opinion matters? Interesting.
Oh come on. You know I am not speaking for all humanity. Get over yourself.
Kevin,
I re-read your post twice and can do everything you list above except re-plant. We drill down with small tanks and make choices through the vineyard and have been working with some for 9 years and know it and them intimately. I just don’t agree. Then again, I don’t have hundreds of millions in order to agree.
No.
I did post earlier up on the thread. All I can say is that every situation is different. There is no right or wrong, nor better or worse. Nothing definitive except for individual cases.
If I had not purchased my property back in 1999, my life would be totally different. I have dealt from the strength of my vineyard site. Having my own vineyard - in my backyard on prime Napa Valley land - enabled me to establish and grow my business as I was ready. It enabled me to essentially be a stay-at-home mom, fitting the wine stuff around being a single parent out on farmland. My office is next to my kitchen. I have worked hard at it. No one can tell me that owning the vineyard (the way I have done it) is a negative.
And Jamie, you say you don’t have to worry yourself about drought and running out of water. Really? That same water is needed for the crop, whether you own that crop or not. No water and lost fruit is the same - if the owner can’t provide you fruit, your business is hurting as well. No?
It’s a good point Merrill and yes, I do fret about water. Just not the same way as if I was an owner.
I did post that buying rarely pencils out yet I agree with you that each situation is different. On a serious note, congrat’s on making it work. I know it isn’t or wasn’t easy and I am glad to hear that it has worked.
Some enter the wine industry with mega money while others with what amounts to used car money. Each can and do often succeed. Being originally in the later camp, I just think it is important that it is clearly known that owning an estate vineyard vs buying fruit on an acreage contract can sometimes make zero difference. That for me is absolutely and undeniably fact.
Robert, again, Wells and Morgan control farming practices on the vineyards and vineyard parcels they purchase from.
Just walk away if the quality isn’t there? Nice notion. Yes, of course you can walk away, but you need a place to walk TO. You can’t maintain a label/business without fruit. You can change vineyards with every vintage, but then what are you selling? A label with your name on it? As I said upthread, you need not own the vineyard. But I do think some major amount of consistency of vineyards you are sourcing from means a lot. To your “house style” and to your customer base. Otherwise, what are they buying?