I hope LOTS of restaurant wine directors read this thread.
3 x retail when the restaurant is paying wholesale is ridiculous.
I’m taking HRH out for her birthday at a nice place next weekend and may order from the list, but only because it’s a good list and I know which wines are fairly priced
On the occasions when I do want a bottle or something better than is available BTG, I more often order off the list than bring something. A big part of it is laziness - I don’t always want to have to think ahead enough to figure out what I’m going to want to drink. What I choose to eat plays into it, and I rarely decide that before I’m sitting at the table. For me, BYO is typically reserved for special occasions where I have a specific bottle I know I want to drink. Or if I know the place we’re going doesn’t have a very good wine list.
Sean I would agree a fair amount of people don’t bring in wine due to laziness but much more is about not being confident. I can’t image how many people I have told about corkage and I know not one out of 500 will ever do it based on not being confident. They think the restaurant will look down on them. Since your wife is not drinking just bring a bottle and let her drive home!
I paid 2x retail for a bottle of Unibroue La Fin Du Monde with dinner last night. So markup was similar…but i got 16 ounces of world class beer for $5.
It is funny…now that Liz is done with grad school we can afford wine in restaurants…but i generally refuse to pay the pricing…especially since the norm seems to be well above 2x these days.
I’m happy to say there is a small but noticeable trend here in Portland to charge retail (or just a shade above) for wine list bottles. They appear to be moving a lot of bottles and that gives me hope this trend will continue. And I’m way more likely to order wines BTG in places where reasonable glass pour prices indicate bottles might be getting turned over faster.
The degree of which a wine director will care is likely dependent on the type/status of the restaurant. Was lucky enough to dine at Ai Fiore last week. Take a look at this list and the pricing. http://www.binwise.com/print/aifiori_bottle_pdf.aspx?ListId=146. Thats tough. Do they care? Probably not.
No and thankfully BYOB finally became legal 1.5 years ago.
One other factor is that the wife and I rarely dine at wine list typr restaurants. When we go out it’s for Mexican or Thai. It’s beer with Mexican, and the local Asian place allows BYO. We never visit white tablecloth land. Those types of meals are cooked at home.
Regarding this particular scenario, perhaps these patrons were drinking wine all day at the event and just preferred a beer with their meal instead. And let’s remember, this was in Aspen, where everything is more expensive.
Very rarely. Colorado doesn’t allow BYOB. Fortunately, we have a wealth of quality beers. So it’s that or a martini.
Great question.
At some restaurants, I almost always order wine off the list. For example, at Crabtree Kittlehouse, where we eat fairly often, there is an amazing list. Markup is 2x or so and one can find plenty of 10-15 year old wines. I almost always buy off be list, happily.
At many other places, I do corkage. It really is all about the wine list and whether I can get something net resting for a decent price. If you have only vintages 2-4 years old and the markup is 3x, you had better have something really interesting or allow corkage, otherwise, I am pretty unlikely to return.
Almost every restaurant’s food prices are in my budget, but most offer wine that is not. Since restaurants that serve liquor are not permitted to allow corkage, this has severely limited the restaurants I’m willing to eat at.
The meal doesn’t feel complete if wine is not enhancing the food.
My wife used to bring ear plugs along to any non-BYO restaurant in PA. I’d bitch for 10 - 30 minutes about the unconscionable mark-ups, not to mention the selection. I’m down to only 5 minutes or so these days.
RT
I feel fortunate that here in Houston, we have a small cadre of restaurants that offer wines with reasonable markups. WIth BYOB rarely an option in Texas (the establishment must opt for a beer and wine only license rather than a full liquor license), we are generally at the mercy of the wine list. Restaurants like Underbelly, Coppa, Mezzanote, Reef, benjy’s, Piqueo and others have wines at 1.5x retail and frequently are less than that. A few examples:
Arnot-Roberts Sangiovese Atlas Peak District, CA ’09 $65 (I couldn’t find the release price but found it multiple places for $60)
Nickel & Nickel “Hayne Vineyard” Napa, CA ’09 $85 (Still being sold on the winery’s website for $100)
Chateau Montelena Napa, CA ’09 $58 ($50 at release)
WillaKenzie Estate Pinot Noir Aliette '07 $55 ($48 at release)
Quintessa '09 $161 ($145 at release)
Nice Cabernet Sauvignon $100 (Current vintage $110)
Chappellet Montain Cuvee "10 $30 ($32 at release)
These are examples of wines taken from current wine lists. When wines are priced line this, yes I do buy from restaurants. When I am a restaurant that prices the Quintessa at $275, $298 or $305, or the Montelena at $85 or $96, or a Mer Soleil Silver for $75 that I can buy for $19 at my neighborhood Kroger, I’ll opt for a glass or a beer.
I was in San Antonio for a convention for the last few days and didn’t hesitate to purchase a 2010 Rivers-Marie Occidental Ridge Pinot for $69 at The Monterey. They sell the Copain Tous Ensemble Pinot for $27.99 “to go” as well.
Monte
I don’t really buy wine by the bottle for the same reasons people have said here: the markup. I also worry about its storage. I’ve never done it, but I imagine saying no thank you when they pop it open for you to try and it’s off can be uncomfortable in many restaurants. I do wine by the glass if they have things that I already know are good or that I have been wanting to try. Granted, this doesn’t happen often–it’s usually pretty mediocre–so I typically just get a Manhattan or some other cocktail if the restaurant is particularly known for that.
What about wine pairings? Usually between the two of us, one will get it if the restaurant has a particularly competent wine director or interesting list.
We usually BYO when we have a bottle, but I order by the glass fairly often. While the markup is high, the absolute markup you pay for 3-4 glasses is usually not that much different from corkage. Selection can be a problem but some local places have a few decent BTG wines.
I recently found a 2011 Ch. Thivin Cotes de Brouilly 375 on a list in Santa Cruz for $20 and I was all over that. I wish more places had half bottle gems at reasonable prices.
Like many others here I suspect, most of my dining out is at BYO events. Otherwise I’ll buy by the glass or have beer if there’s nothing I fancy at an acceptable mark-up (and here in London 3x is at the lower end). On mark-ups, I think we sometimes focus too much on the multiple and not enough on the money - I might not think twice about paying $45 for a $15 wine but I’m sure as hell not paying $450 (plus service) for a $150 wine. Maybe restaurants are missing a trick by not catering intelligently for wine lovers, but as someone else said, do they really give a damn?
Very rare occasion that I buy wine in a restaurant. BYOB or beer most of the time
Very rarely. There are a few restaurants in DC that have fairly priced lists, and I try to patronize them. For the others, I either bring my own or drink something else. And there are restaurants I would otherwise patronize that do not because the list is exorbitant and BYO is not allowed
I envy everyone who is in a part of the States where BYO is common. I live in London and the wine mark-ups are just offensive. I have no problems with 2.5-3x mark-up. It’s restaurants where sometimes you’re paying 3.5-4.5 times. Last night I had a Ridge zin for £88. Why I ordered wine I’ll never know.
Interesting discussion. Quick answer, usually NO, and because of outrageous pricing. If something is reasonable (25-30% markup), would most likely buy. Also would be more inclined to buy in restaurants in states where you can carry out unused wine. Vacations will most likely buy a glass with a meal, but that is it.