Do you believe sake is the next "hot" thing?

I will be devil’s advocate and say well made sake can age. It’s not that uncommon to find perfectly good sake that was bottled in the 80s if you know where to look.
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Not necessarily, and actually sake made in the 80’s had a better chance of being age worthy. But I get what you’re saying.
Today’s focus is on aromatic ginjos’, drunk cold in wine glasses, which is clearly not a style you want to age. It will take much time (if that ever happens, which I strongly doubt) to move the public’s attention from this style to a more traditional, age worthy, ceramic cup, room temp/warm sake style (if I go to the extreme opposite).

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I agree that consumers now do like the delicate style of sake. Last week a customer came in looking for a dry minerally chardonnay so I had mentioned Chablis. They slowly said “Noooo I said CHAR-DON-NAY”.

Okay.


I have to battle with stereotype of sweet rieslings daily when my favorite white whines are Alsatian rieslings. I think prohibition didn’t help the alcohol culture in the US. I think craft cocktails, beers, premium liquors, wines, sake are all on the rise. They aren’t as popular anymore, but gastro-pubs were a thing here for a short while trying to bridge that gap of casual eatery, but with some seriously good food and bev.

Oh definitely. We have some Sakes that are up to 10-years old.

I think the issue is even Google provides some misinformation where they don’t delineate between which ones can be truly aged. The first pages of Google are like 6 months, 1-3 years… It could also be the fact some of these articles are written by people who’ve never had older sake.

Dustin Valette’s new restaurant in Healdsburg:

features sushi and the 88 bottle, self service “Wine Wall” has 2, 4 and 8 oz pours of 4 different sakes.


I’m not that familiar with sake. These appear to be medium priced sakes. The Genshu Cowboy is $32 at Truesake in SF.

Scott - I’m not the best to answer this question, because all beer is disgusting to me, whereas I love sake. Even though I’m aware of the similarities between beer and sake when it comes to how they are made, I can’t find them even vaguely similar when it comes to taste or function. Sake - good sake, anyway - is vastly more complex, in my opinion, and can interweave with many different foods in a magical way.

I do wish Americans would get away from the daiginjo attachment. I’ve heard so many people confess they figure it has to be better because it’s usually more expensive. For me, styles like Yamahai and Kimoto are where the fireworks happen with a lot of food, though of course the high polish sakes have their place as well. We import both.

That’s a pretty awesome wine wall and a good way to taste sake. I’m not sure how well Coravin works on sake bottles since I’ve never tried actually…

So often I hear daiginjo as “higher quality” but every time I talk about sake I firmly believe that it’s a STYLE difference. Yes, you get that style by doing certain steps that perhaps make it more expensive, but not all high end sake has to taste THAT way. Anything is almost going to be better than what people get at local low budget sushi restaurants. Admittedly, I do think low quality warm sake tastes like fumes and almost anything of good quality of any style is better.

but does it improve?

Some does, yes. Most doesn’t. But then, remember that most wine doesn’t improve with bottle age either. Though many can hold for a number of years without noticeable deterioration, especially if stored well, most will not improve over time.

That said, there are definitely some examples that will and do, with the caveat that by “improve” we mean a definition along the lines of “evolve into something unique and delightful without degradation.” There is no sake, to my knowledge, that NEEDS aging to reach drinkability, that is unpleasant in its youth the way some wine is. Trying to fit sake into a wine box is problematic in a number of ways, but there are some parallels.

But back to the question: we have conducted small side-by-side tastings of the current release of our BY Daiginjo and our Yamahai Ginjo Genshu against versions aged 12 - 16 years and the differences were fascinating. We also did a large vertical tasting this past spring with a number of different vintages, attended by top NY sommeliers and beverage directors. People were blown away by how complex and expressive the older examples were. I wouldn’t say there was anything like a predictable curve to the (lets call it) improvement - not like with every extra year they got better and better - but there were noticeable gains in complexity and depth, as well as expression, though they became more delicate and subtle in other ways.

Whether a sake can and will age and improve has a lot to do with structure, quality, technique, just as you would expect (interesting side note: the toji at Kikuhime feels that junmai styles won’t age as well, and that the addition of some extra alcohol is one of the things that allows his sake to age so well). But it also has to do with storage and treatment. Heat can damage sake, like it can damage wine. Several of the Japanese sake professionals at our tastings have commented on how unusual and wonderful it is to find sake outside Japan that has been treated well all along the way. As more importers put in the effort and expense to ship and store properly, I’m expecting we’ll see more aged and interesting sake being purchased and appreciated.

It’s still a tiny part of the market. There isn’t a deep tradition of vintage dated sake, even in Japan. Though koshu, aged sake, is a thing, it is usually oxidative and dark and, in my opinion, more of a novelty than something you want to drink with dinner, though some people like it a lot. I am really happy to see more breweries getting interested in aging sake in a way that is clear and clean and doesn’t taste like something went wrong.

Usual disclaimer - Jonathan imports Kikuhime’s higher end bottlings for the US. I use those as examples most often because they are what I know best. Of course, he chose Kikuhime to import because we feel it’s the best, so make of that what you will. :slight_smile:

The evolution of flavours in wine over years is well documented, but I’m unfamiliar with how this flavours evolve for sake. Can you comment on how you and Jonathan have seen the evolution of flavours in sake as it ages?

Are there particular sweet spots for ageing different types of sake like there are for some wines?

As of the last 3-4 years, my go-to sake at home has been Dassai 23 & 39. Here, the 23 is equivalent to around $100/bottle more or less (depending on the exchange rate); the 39 cheaper (but I don’t remember its price). I’ve had better in and around Tokyo, as well as in Manila; but, in the latter case, they’ve been gifts from friends and my (Japanese) sister-in-law, the brands/bottlings of which are not available in the Philippines.
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These are excellent question, Rodrigo, and ones we’re still exploring for sure. There simply isn’t enough great aged sake out there to be able to respond definitively, or make generalizations on sweet spots - we just don’t have the data points. I’d have to have multiple examples from at least a few different breweries across a number of different styles to start to build a real picture, the kind we have with wine, and I don’t know that it’s possible to get that kind of experience. Even in Japan it would be difficult. Here are some thoughts, though.

I already commented above about aged sake gaining depth and complexity. Specific flavors are harder to address. With age on sake, there are some nutty and caramelized notes that come in, but not in an oxidative way, at least not with the kind of sake I’m talking about. The changes are also to texture and structure. More of a broadening of the palate. There is also a softening, gentling of the impact which I feel reveals detail which might have been obscured when the volume was turned way up in its youth. These aspects make me think the styles that are impact-driven, like Yamahai, perhaps benefit less from age, because you’ll have lost some of what made them unique. I know our BY Daiginjo, which is fairly subtle to start with, though still big-boned, benefits greatly from age, with its complexities coming out more and more.

I wish I could give you a better answer. Maybe someday I’ll be able to!

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I’ve tried many Junmai Daiginjo sake, but for the life of me, I think my favorite is cheap Taru sake, which is aged in Yoshino cedar casks. It traditionally came in large cedar casks that would oxidize into different flavors as it was emptied:
https://www.kikumasamune.co.jp/taru_E/

It works well enough with the screw cap adapters. Though it tends to keep better than an average wine in my experience that a vacuum sealer wine cap is usually sufficient assuming you have two weeks.

Thanks, good to know!

I love sake and especially Nama (unpasteurized) sake. it is my go to with rich foods ie., wagyu beef and soy flavors that are not wine friendly. How sake is made is closer to beer production and that is where the similarity ends.

I did my WSET 3 in sake earlier this year and it was a real eye opener.

There is a very cautious hype emerging here in the Netherlands, mostly due to some great ambassadors and importers.

Some of my high end restaurant customers now occasionally have sake in their wine pairings as well.

Will it ever become the next hot thing?
It certainly has the artisanal touch to it, which is in fashion. Japan is always considered cool as well over here and there are some magnificent pairings possible.

That said, the vast majority of customers see it as an interesting gimmick at best, a nice break from wines in the pairing but not to be drunk exclusively. And for restaurants, the fact that you should ideally store it at fridge rather than wine fridge temperatures doesn’t help.

I’d be inclined to say it will remain niche, but I do think that niche will continue growing if that makes sense.

I’m about to accidentally wade into the question of how well some sake ages. I fell for the description of how the Takasago Divine Droplets is made, especially now that global warming has caused a different house, Toko, to take over and produce what sounds like a sake with a less-appealing flavor profile. I ordered a pair of Takasagos and when they arrived noticed they were stamped “10,08,” which suggests I’m about to open an 11-year-old bottle. We’ll see how it goes.