The problems at Fevre, other Burgundy producers, Trimbach and '02 Huet all stem from issues during the winemaking/bottling process at the winery and it affects a significant part o the production. That’s why it’s premox, at least that’s how it’s really come to mean, certainly within the trade, even if not an actual dictionary definition. As you point out, usually the cause is a mystery, but it is an issue at the winery. Additionally, in the case of many of the Burgs affected, as well as with Trimbach and the '02 Huet, the premox seems to show up like clockwork about 7-10 years after vintage. It’s been pretty specific.
Heat along the distribution chain and/or cellar conditions is responsible for most of the oxidized wine out there and it strikes haphazardly and doesn’t affect only specific vintages throughout the global distribution for that specific wine, unless perhaps the rare occurrence where a tiny production wine happens to all be shipping out to one market and there happens to be heat issues either at the dock, or in transit, that impacts the entire shipment.
I think Brad is correct. Premox is our term for a systemic problem whose cause is still crazily unknown. Having a random oxidized bottle that isn’t what it should be because it cooked or that cork was randomly faulty or all the stuff that caused oxidation before we had the systemic problem, and still do, is not premox. And Chenin goes through phases in which it appears oxidized but is not. Always has.
That is why I have not seen premox in Huet except 2002. It could be time will reveal it. But the failure rate on certain Huet 2002s is extraordinary (although some random good results lately), just like the cork rate on 89s is very high (unfortunately).
Clos du Bourg is also my favorite. I bought a case each of the 2010 CdB and Le Mont. Early bottles were great, but they started fading around 2015(not bad but more Jura-esque than I want from Chenin Blanc). A year ago I went through the last 5btls of each and all were definitely tired(nicest way I can put it). Maybe my cases, bought on arrival from a very good local distributor, and never on a store shelf, had some issue in transport?
I am a believer that wines can freshen up with air, but I didn’t find that to be the case. I’m jealous of those posting that their experience are still good, as these have always been some of my favorite wines.
I agree. There has always been some incidence of sporadic oxidation in all wines as they get older. I think this is usually due to cork failure, which can probably happen even if the cork looks fine. Of course, there could be other causes. A bad bottle here and there does not equal premox as we use the term. It helps to all use the term to mean the same thing (as most of us do at this point) to avoid alarmism and distraction from whatever the systemic problem is.
2 more TNs just hit CT this week, by tasters who are not rookies at this stuff. Andreaskoeberl and christyler, who combined have about 3,000 TNs in the database. Both made comments about the 2010 Huet Sec Cdb being oxidized. Whatever term we want to attribute to the wine in terms of the state it is in, the point is that others are finding more issues with Huet. The vintage is not even a decade old.
Unless you are getting a lot of people, globally, reporting repeated and multiple issues, it’s not premox. It’s simply oxidized. Ten people reporting an off bottle or two with plenty of other good notes in between, does not a premox problem, make.
Brad, this is not looking like a few off bottles of many. The ratio within reported notes is concerning. i am opening my final 10 CdB today, it is chilling now.
Are people seeing it in the petillant and all the the different vineyard bottlings of the secs and demi-secs? Have folks been experiencing 70% or more oxidized rates? Have you personally experienced off bottles sourced from a number of different markets around the country, or sourced internationally? That’s what was going on with the '02s.
Brad, I recognize your expertise in this space, and it’s why I respect your view on this topic. The power of the forum here is the presence of people who are strong/well-versed in certain spaces, for which you are for Chenin.
I will answer no to your questions, as mine were all sourced from either Wine Exchange or Envoyer.
My post is just to raise some other POVs from people who have had bottles open recently. As for my bottle, I just opened it to see if it is sound for the event later. It is. I will bring back a TN tomorrow.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the bottle you’re popping tonight Frank, as 2010 is my sons birth year and I’ve snagged a solid amount of Huet to age for the long haul. As a point of reference (per Brad’s comments), I’ve consumed eight (8) 2010 pettilants over the past year and have not experienced a single oxidized bottle. Here’s to hoping that I’m not just super lucky.
…also popped an 11 Le Mont Sec yesterday that was fresh as a daisy. Enjoyed it but felt like I should leave me last few alone for at least a few years, as it was drinking very young with bright acidity leading the charge. Day 2, and it’s still drinking well. No fear of oxidation here…at lest with this bottle.
Rich, I would say you’re fine, if you base things on my recent tasting of 10 Sec LM and the CdB, which I just finished tasting (below). Maybe you take a moment to open a bottle or two of the 2010 stock you have and see what you think. I appreciate the value and POV of the CT community, and so my TN below will just add to the portfolio of impressions. In sum, the glass I finished of the CdB is excellent and is not fading or heading sideways at all.
2010 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Clos du Bourg- France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray (8/4/2019)
My final bottle. After seeing a few recent notes about this wine perhaps not in the best shape, I figured I would open it and see what’s there. We opened this yesterday and I brought back home last night with me the last few ounces so I could write a solid note today. As for how the wine shows, first off there is nothing wrong with the color, looks great. The palate is right on, too. There is some weight in the texture, slick and mouthfilling. The fruit expressions is lime, nectarine, peach, tart apple that is woven through some grapefruit and lime acidity, both lengthening the finish. Nothing wrong with this wine at all, and I am glad actually I opened it because I got to taste it and enjoy it. If anything, the acidity is still so bright that it might turn off some people but as an acid freak, I dig it. If this bottle is representative of the 10 CdB Sec (putting aside the bad bottles that others have logged), then I would think this vintage of it should last quite a while.
Just opened a 2009 Le Haut Lieu Sec and it is absolutely delicious. Fresh, racy, with delightful notes of quince, red apple and honey, with a lip-smacking salivatory feel to this and an almost citrus peel like tang on the long finish that draws me back for more. At ten years from vintage, this is drinking enormously well (I suspect that this particular bottle will ‘evaporate’ rather quickly tonight), yet I have no qualms in predicting that this wine will push on for many a moon. I’m left with the age old quandary…do I open more of my small stash soon to revel in its deliciousness, or hold for added complexity?