Did you buy into 2017 Bordeaux En Primeur?

[Bryce_K]

Nope. I bought 15 and 16, and once I saw 17 pricing, I felt that I could wait and see where prices landed in a few years

[Jim_Brennan]

However, given that '10, '15, '16 and now '18 are considered vintages of the century, I dislike how EP has become a marketing machine. Additionally, I feel that you could get aged wines for the same price from great vintage years.

When has EP not been all about marketing the vintage?

[DanielP]

However, given that '10, '15, '16 and now '18 are considered vintages of the century, I dislike how EP has become a marketing machine. Additionally, I feel that you could get aged wines for the same price from great vintage years.

When has EP not been all about marketing the vintage?

They used to sell wine during EP

[Jim_Brennan]

I used to buy wine during EP, until they decided to extract 105% up front.

[Jon_Chan]

However, given that '10, '15, '16 and now '18 are considered vintages of the century, I dislike how EP has become a marketing machine. Additionally, I feel that you could get aged wines for the same price from great vintage years.

When has EP not been all about marketing the vintage?

Yes, I brought into the hype, now proceeding with extreme caution.

[Howard_Cooper]

However, given that '10, '15, '16 and now '18 are considered vintages of the century, I dislike how EP has become a marketing machine. Additionally, I feel that you could get aged wines for the same price from great vintage years.

When has EP not been all about marketing the vintage?

It has always been about marketing the vintage, but EP prices used to be tremendous values compared with the prices the wines fetched when they were released. The #1 example of this has to be 1982 when some wines were selling at release for 2-4 times their EP prices, but also 1990 when prices went way up from EP to release.

[Neal.Mollen]

Say you are starting from scratch, is 2014 still the best value because those wines can be purchased for about release price but have more bottle age on them? The 15 and 16’s I’m seeing at retail are priced way higher than the 17’s, which is the only reason I would consider the 17’s at this point.

It depends on what you are looking for. 2014 is widely regarded as a “classic” vintage especially on the left bank. The wines generally have less volume than those in years like 09 and 10. If you want to pump up the volume, as a general matter (i.e., specific wines excepted) it would be a terrible value for you even if the wines were dirt cheap. On the other hand, if wines with this profile are to your taste, I’d advise that you buy plenty (after doing your producer-specific research)

[Jim_Brennan]

However, given that '10, '15, '16 and now '18 are considered vintages of the century, I dislike how EP has become a marketing machine. Additionally, I feel that you could get aged wines for the same price from great vintage years.

When has EP not been all about marketing the vintage?

It has always been about marketing the vintage, but EP prices used to be tremendous values compared with the prices the wines fetched when they were released. The #1 example of this has to be 1982 when some wines were selling at release for 2-4 times their EP prices, but also 1990 when prices went way up from EP to release.

Yup! See my comment about “getting out” of EP once the Chateaus decided to not only leave nothing on the table. For many wines, you can actually get them at lower or equivalent prices a few years on.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

Except for rare exceptions, in the L.A. market, I don’t see these “falling post-E.P. prices” everyone else here seems to see everywhere all the time. Maybe I’m looking in all the wrong spots?

Even the attractively-priced '14’s were cheaper E.P. than on release, and are already climbing in price from release pricing. The '05s are more expensive. The '10’s are more expensive. on the whole, I just don’t see it…

[Steve_Brickley]

Just the 17 Cos so far.

[Jim_Hartten]

I spent some time pondering the 2017s back in the spring - I was attracted by the thought that the 17s would likely be earlier maturing and could be drunk while waiting for the 15s and 16s to mature. But instead, I bought a few additional 15s and 16s. Further, the pricing on the 17s did not look particularly attractive. Based on the wine press, a number of good quality Bordeaux were produced in 2017. Don’t know about availability of 17s at this point. Clearly fewer US retailers bought the 17s versus the 15s and 16s.

[Ethan_Abraham]

I’ve seen a couple 15s at (brane cantenac) or very close (chevalier) to release pricing. Havent seen any below. No idea on 14s as those generally were priced decently.

[J.Vizuete]

I was of the hopeful opinion that once 16s were on the shelf, the price of 14s would drop further with two readily available vintages of highly regarded quality. Those in the trade tell me they feel the 2014s are already at or near a basement price-structure and unlikely to go lower. Thread drift, but any thoughts on this? Do 17 or 18 impact 14 pricing?

[YLee]

Except for rare exceptions, in the L.A. market, I don’t see these “falling post-E.P. prices” everyone else here seems to see everywhere all the time. Maybe I’m looking in all the wrong spots?

Even the attractively-priced '14’s were cheaper E.P. than on release, and are already climbing in price from release pricing. The '05s are more expensive. The '10’s are more expensive. on the whole, I just don’t see it…

I agree. Im in the East coast and I dont see any thing cheaper now than it was EP. Also, I like to have my wines from start as opposed to who knows what happened for a year or 2 sitting at store shelves.

[Mike_J_ewesson]

Except for rare exceptions, in the L.A. market, I don’t see these “falling post-E.P. prices” everyone else here seems to see everywhere all the time. Maybe I’m looking in all the wrong spots?

Even the attractively-priced '14’s were cheaper E.P. than on release, and are already climbing in price from release pricing. The '05s are more expensive. The '10’s are more expensive. on the whole, I just don’t see it…

I agree. Im in the East coast and I dont see any thing cheaper now than it was EP. Also, I like to have my wines from start as opposed to who knows what happened for a year or 2 sitting at store shelves.

I bought 2015 Pontet Canet last week at $99.99, which is a price that matches the very lowest EP price I’ve seen. Haven’t bought anything below EP price for 2015 or 2014. I would be surprised to see anything below EP price for 2014 or 2015 except at auction for those who really overpriced during the EP campaign (last half of the campaign for 2015). That could always change as there have been a string of pretty good vintages (2014-2018) that sold ok (2014 and 2017) to well, but not great (2015-2016) and, I suspect, a ton of 2011 through 2014 in warehouses (probably 2015 and 2016 as well). I always wonder when the dam is going to break in BDX.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

… I always wonder when the dam is going to break in BDX.

They really are masters at manipulating the market. Or, at the very least, playing it very well … I’ll stick with manipulating.

[Mark_Golodetz]

… I always wonder when the dam is going to break in BDX.

They really are masters at manipulating the market. Or, at the very least, playing it very well … I’ll stick with manipulating.

Bordeaux has always been reactive and tactical rather than strategic. At this time, they remain in a good spot thanks to low interest rates and a continued and perhaps increasing interest in wine by consumers. A correction will come, but short term, and the trend is upwards