This sounds like total fantasy. There must be a couple of fluid ounces of airspace in the case that Alan is talking about. What is the mechanism that ruins 24 ounces of wine by putting a weak vacuum in that space?
I just don’t believe that there are rules that work most or all of the time for the entire range of Burg from older grand cru wines to young village wines. A few months ago I slow oxed a bunch of 1996 reds for about 6 hours, then double decanted about 2 or 3 hours prior to starting the tasting. The wines rocked. But that’s 96 - a fairly young, structured vintage. I’d never do that with a bunch of '66s. Nor would I do that with a less structured vintage. I might well just double decant things an hour or two ahead.
What you want to do is 1) avoid having the last glass be the one that’s the best because the wine needed air and 2) decanting so early that the wine dies and you’re left with the aftermath. If you’re unsure, post here and ask for advice on a specific wine.
For young reds I often find that the wine opens up after 30-60 minutes so I’ll decant if I can about an hour before I expect service to begin. For an older wine or one that I suspect will be somehow fragile, I’lll slow ox for a few hours and not decant, just pouring off sediment if it’s there.
When you’re slow oxing…do you have your opened bottle (no cork) in your cellar? Where is it?
Also when you decanted 2-3 hours prior…is the wine sitting in the decanter in room temp? Or, again, is it put back in your cellar (if you have one).
Curious.
For slow oxing or longer decants I always put the bottle/decanter back in at cellar temp - for a 2-3 hour decant, let alone a 5-6 hour decant, having it out at room temp would leave the wine too warm (unless you keep your room temp in the 60s). I suspect the reactions are slower at cellar temp but I hate having the wine be too warm when I go to serve it. Often though for pop and pour type decants or shorter ones, I’ll pull a bottle out 30-45 minutes in advance, put it in the decanter and leave it out from then through dinner.
I try to drink at serving temp (roughly 18C). I suppose others might actually like it at room temp. To each his own I suppose.
I’m not sure if I’ll have a wine cellar in my new home. Might have to just hope for the best. That my basement temp will be cool enough. Under 18C. Will have to see. Be great if I could slow ox the wine and decant for a few hours.
Will likely be buying a 500 bottle Vintage Keeper fridge. Which will allow me to sacrifice some shelf space to let me stand bottles of wine and a decanter or two. And house my collection.
I suppose one could also slow ox a bottle in the fridge. As well as put the decanter in the fridge for a few hours. Setting the kitchen fridge temp to it’s “warmest”. Which I think is 10C?? Maybe I’ll buy a Preservino 14 bottle fridge as well and use that for slow oxidizing the wine. Since the temp can bet preset.You just can’t put a decanter in there.
My room temp is usually 21C. A/C on or off.
If you double decant and take the bottle to the restaurant/party the vacuum does not have long to act on the wine. But then why not just put the cork back in after you double decant and leave the minimum amount of air?
The [supposed] virtue of the Vacu-vin is that you can preserve wine for days with a lot of head space left in the bottle. I tried that many times some years back and didn’t like the way the wines ‘developed.’
That’s my fantasy and I am sticking to it…
Paul
Well, I certainly agree with the first part. I see no reason to VV a double-decanted wine to be consumed the same day.
VV does work, and I don’t believe the vacuum can do any harm. It’s just an imperfect preservation solution. You need to keep the bottles at cellar or fridge temp. and the wines will of course degrade at some rate that varies by wine, fill, temp, etc. However it is far better than air. There can also be faulty stoppers. The best ones are the simple one-piece jobs with the slit in the rubber. I threw away all my others.
Presuming it’s ~65-70F I just leave the wine out when I slow ox. If it was warmer I’d put it somewhere cool. When I decant I usually double decant (i.e. into a clean decanter, back into the original bottle after removing any sediment from the bottle). If I’m decanting for 30 mins just to let something open I again just leave it on the table or something if the room temp is reasonably cool.
RE VacuVin - I don’t believe it works. Never have. The issue is that if there’s a substantial volume open, then VV either a) only removes part of the air which leaves s fair amount to interact with the wine of b) removes almost all of the air which leaves less to interact with the wine but will encourage aromatics to be lost - the wine will volatilize and fill the vacuum (if you doubt this, tell me… what do you smell when you’re perceiving the nose of a wine? Why would those same components not escape into a vacuum?). Personally, I lean toward the answer being (a), that is that the VV doesn’t create that great of a vacuum… meaning there’s a lot of air left to react with the wine. So why does it appear to work? Well… partially psychology (people expect there to be a difference) and partially that some people put the wine in a cool environment which retards chemical reactions.
How does one determine which wines need to be slow oxidized and/or sitting in a decanter for 2-3 hours? Just by experience with that particular vintage/bottle? Recommendations from the winemaker?
Mostly experience. Usually I only slow ox wines with some age - 15+ years. It’s a method introduced to most of us by Francois Audoze who uses it on VERY old wines to let them gently air out and give up some of the bottle mustiness that older wines can show and also to let the expand a bit. On old wines, the idea is to do this gently and substitute time for more air.
For young wines (under 10 years old), I’d favor decanting. Start conservatively and pop the wine, taste a bit and then decant it. Taste it at 30 minutes, then an hour. See if you notice a difference.
BTW, all of my advice presumes you’re drinking that bottle over dinner vs with a given course. If you do a multi-course meal with a bottle per course and each person getting a glass or so per course factor in that 1) some bottles won’t be tasted until sometime after the start of dinner and 2) people will not be following the wine over the dinner, so you want the glass to be showing well when they drink it.
Ok thanks for the advice RG. As I said. I’ve been just taking my bottles from the fridge, decant into a decanter (young wines only so far), for roughly an hour. Room temp being 21C as I said.
Yeah and that’s gonna work for almost all younger Burgs, so no worries.
At the risk of going off thread, here is an interesting post on Vacu-Vin: [with some actual data…] BTW: I used to work in a vacuum laboratory at Sandia National Laboratories and it is true that the stopper Vacu-Vin offers will leak significantly [although applying non-volatile, designed-for-the-purpose vacuum grease will help]:
http://johnonwine.com/2009/12/17/friends-dont-let-friends-vacu-vin/
The liquid [wine] is an active player here once the vacuum is applied. “Due to the kinetics of the molecules in the liquid, there are always some molecules of wine that are ejected from the surface of the liquid. The rate at which these molecules are ejected is a function of temperature. If all the air molecules were removed from the bottle, a vapor would be created in the head space at the vapor pressure of the liquid.” http://www.amazon.com/Vacu-Vin-3-Piece-Saver-Stopper/product-reviews/B00004SAF4?pageNumber=3
Cheers,
Paul