Dealing with limo groups ...

Cellar Rats (ITB)
1

How many of us with tasting rooms develop an involuntary shudder when a limo pulls up? Nevertheless, properly handled . . . large groups can bring attention and retail business to our tasting rooms, and limousine or tour companies can be powerful allies.

It is VERY important to be proactive, though, because the dark side of this business is that people feel entitled to drink without responsibility or caution. They are frequently out to party, not to appreciate or evaluate your wine–resulting in wasted product and staff time and sometimes lost customers as other, more serious tasters, leave to avoid the crowd. And third, large groups cause attention problems for the staff. They can’t watch everybody in the tasting room and prevent mishaps, theft, or other bad behavior.

Some of the negative things we have experienced with limo groups . . .

  • People walking in with tinkling cocktails–a clear violation of our liquor license, and we could lose our license to serve.
  • People walking into our home, looking for a bathroom, or mistaking it for a tasting room.
  • Visitors pulling the bungs out of barrels to see “if there is really wine inside.”
  • Adults riding double/triple on the swing on our home’s front lawn. (Originally there were 2 swings on our 100-year-old black walnut . . . adults jumping on one swing broke it off. They left it laying on the lawn and departed with no apology.)
  • People feeding our dog unauthorized treats, including small lamb bones.
  • Visitors messing around on the crush pad, playing with the basketball, or just turning dials on the filter.
  • Noise. Shreaking and screaming on our home’s front lawn. Loud laughter, shouting, cellphones and potty mouth in the tasting room.

The noise factor is something you can always count on. If you have 10 couples in the tasting room, they don’t know each other and while they may converse, they tend to maintain some personal space and decorum. But a group of 20, with a driver? They all know each other–they’ll discuss their kids, evil bosses, other wineries, shout across the room, laugh hysterically, and pretty much act like kindergartners.

What can you do?

  • **** One of the most important things you can do is vett your groups. Find out as much as you can about who is coming. We ask for the following information–limo company, dispatch number, driver’s name, driver’s cell number, name of the group’s contact, contact’s cell number, size of group, arrival time, and purpose of the group visit. We have a half-page form for reservations, and (because we are a home and have a very tiny tasting room) we only allow groups that have some connection with the winery–a wine club member, loyal buyer, or industry connection. Even if you allow all groups, asking for this information serves two functions. It alerts the limo companies that you are a discerning hospitality destination, and it allows you to plan for the group. If it’s a mature or semi-serious group (as opposed to bachelorette parties) you can set up a table outdoors or in an adjacent room, and provide a targeted list and a dedicated server. If staff is limited, you can request that the group visit before your opening time so that your staff can give them a ‘private’ tasting. This also catches the group while they’re fresh. (Sure, people buy more when they’re drunk, but is it worth having someone stumble in the bathroom and hit his head on the porcelain?)
  • Insist that the driver accompany his group!
    This is a tip that I learned from the most professional drivers in our area. They know that large groups present an attention-and-control problem. A classy driver attends his clients, carries their purchases out to the car, reminds them that it’s time to move on, and keeps the group under control. A professional wine touring/limo firm will provide a complimentary bottle of champagne, and food in the form of antipasto and cheese. No hard liquor, no mixed cocktails. (At least not on a wine tour.)

I’ve seen drivers gently quiet their clients, take orders from individuals so everyone can get a case discount, and check the bathroom after client visits. Man, those are the limo drivers I love!!

The driver should always come in with his group, present a card, and announce the name and purpose of the group. They should also call ahead when they are about 10 minutes out.

  • Do not overpour just because they have a driver. If someone stumbles and falls on your property, you will have an insurance and legal nightmare beyond the value of the group’s visit. Overpouring can also jeopardize your pouring license.

Members of large groups are more guilty than most of demanding second pours. If this happens in the middle of a tasting I recommend saying (while nodding and smiling of course! ) that you say something like, “When we reach the end of the tasting, if you would like a repeat pour of one wine, just let me know.” This puts them on notice that they will only get one chance for a repeat, and they’d better darn well remember the name of the wine!

  • Noise—there isn’t too much you can do about this other than refuse to contribute. Probably the worst thing you can do is try to shush someone who is being obnoxiously loud. But you can refuse to be loud yourself. Keep your voice at a reasonable level, project, use gestures and smile, smile, smile.
  • Be proactive with the tour companies. Look them up in the yellow pages and send an email and snail mail outlining your requirements. Stress the positives–that you would like to provide a quality experience for their clients, that you appreciate their business and would like to refer them to your customer base. But hang firm on your requirements. I think you’ll be surprised to discover how many companies respect your ‘inner circle’.

What are your horror stories? Any suggestions?

2

Have had far fewer good experiences than downright awful ones with limo groups. Just speaking from experience.

3

Limos? I’ve seen actual buses, and that’s in the Willamette Valley, not on Highway 29. Oh yeah . . . they have a freakin’ TRAIN!

4

I don’t allow buses. Period.

Last time a bus pulled up here I ran outside before they could disembark and asked the driver what he thought he was doing. He had the nerve to say to me that he had cleared it with the owner. I AM the owner! (Well, a partner anyway, but the only person who would be approving a group visit.) He got a few choice words from me, and in front of his group too.
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5

we just had this experience last Saturday: gal calls up one week prior and asks if we can handle a group of 25 for a tasting the next weekend around 1:00 pm. i explain to her that our tasting room is fairly small, and that a group of 25 would dominate that space. i ask her if she could come early in the day, i.e. 10:00 am right as we open, that way we are less likely to have other patrons in the room and we can focus solely on their group. she responds in the negative, saying they aren’t even getting the bus until 11:00. i ask if this is a group of people on a “serious” wine excursion, or just some folks out for a good time on a Saturday. she indicates the latter. after mulling it over for a couple of seconds (because i don’t really like to turn business away, and because she was considerate enough to call in advance) i leave it like this: call us before you leave your first stop and check to see how things are progressing - that way we can let you know if we have a full room of people, or if it’s slow and we can accommodate your party. she agrees and that’s that.

fast forward to the next Saturday: my co-worker gets a call from “Miguel Tejada” around 1:00 pm. “Miguel” says, “We’ll be there in 30!” and hangs up. i explain to my co-worker the conversation i had the week prior with the alleged planner of this event, and how they were supposed to contact us and CHECK to see if we could accommodate them. i guess i’m too much of an idealist. anyway, the group shows up half and hour later. 18 guys, 7 gals; all under the age of 27. the last kid in the door is chugging his Coors Light and was a bit put off when we told him to throw it away. overall, they wern’t the worst group in the world: “Miguel Tejada” was a nice enough guy (though fairly buzzed by 1:30 pm), they were respectful to me, wern’t any louder than i thought they might be, said “thank you” after each taste, and bought about 5 bottles between them.

the upshot of all this is, when we had our weekly management meeting on Monday, we dissected the situation (much like Mary did in the first post) and came up with some ground rules:

  • 25 people is too big a number. the maximum we’re going to have in the future is 12 to 14, depending on the limo company and the clientele.
  • with the exception of special events we host, buses are no longer something we’re going to allow. main reason for this: buses in front of wineries do send a distinct signal to those who might consider stopping in for a taste. i’d rather have 10 groups of 2 over three hours, than one group of 20 for 90 minutes. it’s a better experience all the way around.
  • we are going to be proactive with our tour groups and let them know the policy and ask them to communicate even more than they already do. we have great relationships with the drivers and their companies, and don’t want to damage that. by being very clear with what we’re trying to accomplish, we will be able to avoid confusion in the future.

one thing that really grinds on me is the driver who stands two feet away from the group i’m pouring for, and proceeds to tell them everything about our winery and the wine i’m pouring. on a few occasions, the driver’s had the gall to question the information i’m giving my guests (e.g. me: “Tocai Fruiulano is a grape native to Italy.” him: “Are you sure that’s right? I know Tokaji comes from Hungary.”) it’s as if he thinks i’m in capable of doing my job, or is trying to show off in front of his tour. either way, it’s distracting and annoying. so while i do appreciate attentive drivers like the ones Mary described, there is a fine line between attentiveness and intrusion. i think drivers should be like referees in sports: the best ones do their job so well, you don’t even notice they are there.

the bottom line: limo companies in this area do drive us a lot of business (no pun intended), and we rely on their judgment and discretion when coming by our tasting room. nearly every driver calls at least one stop in advance and lets us know their ETA and how many people will be tasting. this gives us time to plan and make ready for their arrival. overall, this system works out just fine and we’re happy to have the guests in our tasting room.

6

Paul, out of curiosity, what winery do you pour for?

7

VJB Vineyards & Cellars

8

Mary, do tasting fees help? If getting drunk at a winery costs more in a tasting room than getting drunk in the limo or at a bar, will they still show up?

9

Look at Beringer…the answer is no. Fees have to be up there in the high dollars to be a deterent to booze hounds IMHO. No buses or limos show up to Nickel & Nickel, Quintessa or the likes.

10

Last summer I was on a very unfortunate tour of Beringer and the guide was drunk.

John

11

Once had a group come up in a Limo to Outpost when I worked there. One or two were serious wine geeks, the rest of their 10 person group not. The ones that were not for the most part were interested in learning about wine or at the very least exploring fine wine. The exception was a couple that decided that morning to start with Vodka tonics before heading up the hill in the limo. They were quietly skipped when pouring wine for the rest of the group. PRetty easy to do if you allow the situation to “appear chaotic”. They were quite fine laying on the patio enjoying the sun and view.

Seriously, i did have a few groups pull what the group did with Paul L. so I basically turned down large groups like that unless they came from one of the regular valley limo/tour operators who I knew would send up/bring people who intended to buy wine.

Or we had a bakersfield wine group come up every year. THey brought lunch for me and we tasted them on a bunch of stuff…however, they were mailing list members who bought a lot of wine.

12

Oh and Paul…I think I saw that same group about 1 year earlier getting out of a party bus at Roshambo. Spilling out with cans of Coors Light and cigarettes, dressed as if they were heading to the night club at 1 pm. Traci and I turned around and quickly headed to the car and went somewhere else.

13

Mary, I do tours in Napa and Sonoma and often with small bus groups (14 max) and I love it and so do the wineries that we visit. I do not go to any winery that I have not personally met with (without a group) so that I know and follow their desires and rules and so that they know that I am a professional. This started with my old colleagues from the cardiac device industry as well as my physician clients/friends asking me to do tours for them.

My focus and priorities are:
Safety.
Education on both wine and the history of the valleys/wineries (fortunately - or not - my clients usually get a military history lesson while in Sonoma as it’s one of my areas of interest and study).
Fostering a relationship between the wineries and my clients.
Encouraging my clients to buy wine. This may sound trite, but there are oh-so-many ways to achieve this which solidifies the relationships (my goal). For example: helping them understand the pricing of hand-crafted wines so they don’t experience sticker-shock; relating the story of the winery/wines when the person pouring isn’t educating them; encouraging wineclub membership; get them where their preferred varietals are; letting them know that the best way to remember their experience is to take some home with them…I could go on and on here.

I love my private label wine business but doing tour work has brought me enormous joy. [give_heart.gif]

Don’t other people in this industry understand that it is far better for them to have the rare, unhappy client (one who needs to be managed, etc) than to harm their relationship with the wineries? Pffffft - shame on them!
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14

Yes and no. Large groups tend NOT to buy, and they also wander off and stiff us on the tasting fees. Large groups are also more demanding in terms of time and attention, and we sometimes lose more serious customers when they take over the room. We’ve gotten more proactive about insisting on collecting the fees–we don’t need the money, but we do want to make the point. But the tasting fee does help limit the number of pours–couples will decide to share, grandma will decide to pass–and it gives us a chance to encourage people to look over the list first. When someone walks up and says, “I want to taste,” or “I’ll just start at the top,” it’s not usually a good sign, and we discreetly make sure they can read the list and comprehend the directions at the top before we serve them. If they make no effort, just lean on the bar with a cheesy grin (which a lot of guys do to Carissa anyway [give_heart.gif] ) they get really short pours and are processed out quickly. I hope that doesn’t sound unfriendly; with our limited production we have to really watch our samples-to-sales ratio, and we also want to focus our time and energy developing loyal return customers, not on being a party destination.

Golly, I hate that, too. Had one driver come behind the bar and practically hip-bump me out of the way! He started talking to the customers as if he were my employee. Another time had a driver who insisted on butting in and instructing her whole group [in a very loud voice] how to swirl, sniff, etc. Both incidents in just the last year. I don’t mind if a driver chimes in to ask questions, or offer a leading suggestion and I actually enjoy the participation of quite a few drivers (even hugs) but I agree there is a definite line between classy and clueless. When a driver is being intrusive, you can’t really stop them while they’re doing it without making the whole group feel awkward, and if you call their employer to complain it just creates ill will–we decided the best way for us to handle it is to detain the driver for a private conversation just before they leave, and gently explain that any generic instruction should be offered in the vehicle or at the start of the tour, and that the tasting room staff, and only the tr staff, should answer questions while the guests are on the winery premises. (I don’t really enforce that, but I think I need to sound firmer with the clueless ones.) I also ask for a business card and quietly put that firm on our “Watch” list, because the classy companies train their drivers not to act like that.

15

Question on how to handle this situation…Albeit rare, I have witnessed inexperienced pourers that do not have knowledge of their wines or their winery. If I ask a pourer a leading question and they give that blank stare, I ask if they have any literature on the winery that we could take with us. I will state what I know to be true in the form of a question, if I believe it is a deal-breaker for buying wine. For example, I had a client who told me that he wanted to buy old-vine zins, but only if they were from a certain area and only >75yrs old. I took him to a winery that met his needs, but the person pouring mentioned nothing about it. So I asked her IF they were >75 yr old vines and from this area, to which she responded “I’m pretty sure.” I asked if she had any written information on the wine to which she gladly handed over a full spec sheet with all the ‘proof’ that the client needed to buy. I never would want to overstep any boundaries but I do want to create relationships and have people buy. Is there a better way to handle this? [1974_eating_popcorn.gif]

Also, I have had appointments at wineries and although we were on time, they were behind schedule, or had drop-ins, etc. I always ask - in advance - how they want me to handle this. Some say just come on in, I’ll manage it; others say take them around to the crush pad and talk about that, there are many different preferences. Also, different winemaker’s feel diffently about signing bottles (yet another thing I ask in pre-visits). My point is, if these things are clarified - in advance - respect is fostered and better relationships result. Not everything can be foreseen, but having limo’s etc. that have guides with emotional intelligence goes a long way.

Again, I am very interested in this thread. Thanks for posting Mary.

16

Shawnda - try to find out a head of time what your customers need specifically and communicate that to the winery. Call and say, hey, I have a customer that I am going to bring in…he/she is really interested in old vine Zin where the vines are at least 75 years old. Are your vines that old, if so/if not how old and do you have any literature we can give them or at least prepare the staff to handle the question.

I always asked when I had a limo or tour group bringing someone up. Have they heard of the winery? Do they know anything about xx region or subappellation, how did they hear about our winery? What wines do you know they buy/like.

Often your tour groups will tell you what other Pinots, Cabs, Syrahs etc., they have had recently and what they liked/disliked…maybe they hate Pinot and bringing them to a Pinot heavy producer won’t be a great idea.

17

I know it’s been said but beware of completely tanked individualss i.e. inebriated. I’ve seen it all too many times.

TV - Remember that time we were up at Forth and a limo group showed up? All I remember is my ears were hurtin’ after the screamer left. They were from the OC so you have to feel a little bit sympathetic.

18

I do…Limos can be the worst of the worst b/c it does give some a complete license to get trashed. It was something I was always vigilant of if the group had hit a few wineries before hitting us. If we were toward the end of the day for the group, I always paid attention and would do the short pour and/or let things get a little chaotic so I could skip the really inebriated people. These groups were a crap shoot…seemed like they would either buy a lot of wine or nothing.

19

Shawnda, it sounds like you are handling things beautifully. A firm like yours will be welcome at any winery, I’m sure!

To give you a clearer picture of what I’m criticizing, the driver who hip-bumped his way behind the counter also had a ratty shave, a tatty Liverpool leather cap that he did not remove, and leather gloves with the fingers cut off. He braced his hands on the counter and just took over the bar. Usually the drivers that are this intrusive are just total numbskulls, hired by firms that cater to the party crowd.

Probably one thing many people don’t realize is that there are two types of limo companies–some have a fleet of mobile bars and mostly do the college circuit. The ones that specialize in wine touring do not have hard liquor in their vehicles, although they usually provide a bottle of sparkly, glasses, and a cheese/bread platter. I recommend to people hiring a limo for a wine tour that they look for a reputable driver and company. Calling your favorite wineries for recommendations is a good place to start.

20

I’m sure very few have experienced Temecula here. There are probably 3 Limos at every large winery filled with sub 30 people COMPLETELY BLISTERED from alcohol.

I saw one guy lead a very drunk girl into the vineyards COUGH COUGH.