This is what happens when you miss a meeting.
To recap:
No one says a wine can’t be criticized
Mark has made himself clear on the wine, more than once.
Some here think it odd he continues to drink a wine he hates and comes here immediately thereafter to remind us he hates it.
Me? Doesn’t really bother me. I’m not bothered. It is ok. I like things that repeat repetitively again and again
To each his own. Has anyone had the 09 Cos recently? If so, is it a keeper?
I had it about two years ago in Bordeaux. I’m not sure I hated it quite as much as Mark, but we didn’t finish the bottle.
Thanks Mark. I wish we had more of a range of thoughts on wines. I learn as much from all the tasting notes wines liked or not.
Thanks for the note (don’t listen to the grumblers…). I certainly have a higher tolerance for a bit of make-up and bigger bosoms than you, Mark, but I agree, I seldomly had a Cos that I really liked. I strongly believe that they have the better terroir than Montrose but sadly used/use too much oak and the extraction is usually too high. Anyway, having tasted the 2016 recently, Cos is another candidate of a wine you wouldn’t buy in most vintages but can buy with confidence in 2016.
In our large 10 years on tasting the 2009 Cos came in 26th out of 48th wines (partially owned to the fact that the group has a higher tolerance for bolder wines too, but probably to a bigger part due to the fact that quite some right bank wines were even more extreme or have already dried out). The Cos was one of the very rare wines on the left bank that showed alcohol.
Which for a classified growth in an allegedly great vintage, is an epic fail.
I liked the 09 cos when I had it this year, although it will certainly be better in time. I think most cab drinkers would like it. It’s certainly ripe and primary and hasn’t really integrated but the bones are there.
I understand not liking the style, but it’s way too early to decide if it’s getting better with age. This must still be so young.
As a small note, I don’t like it that people use “ripe” to mean “late picked, extracted, and manipulated”. Ripe means “ready to harvest and eat” not “left on the vine until sugars are maximized”.
I think there’s a difference between ripe and heavily made up. For example, a 2005 Latour a Pomerol was ripe and sexy but also fresh and tense. You could taste the vintage and the place. A 2004 Malescot a week ago was not overripe but slathered in gloss, I wrote “way too much makeup on a naturally beautiful face. Why??”. I opened it for myself, and 3/4 of the bottle went down the drain.
It isn’t just a classified growth; it was a truly glorious 2d growth with personality to spare until The Turn. It isn’t so much that they took it over a cliff, but (a) what it was before Thelma and Louise got hold of it; and (b) the fact that there are so many other high-horsepower wines to choose from, in bdx and elsewhere. It isn’t that the world doesn’t need Sousaphones, but if [enter favorite non-Clapton guitarist] ditched his/her Les Paul for a horn, you’d be sorely disappointed.
Fair enough, but I don’t think “late picked, extracted, and manipulated” are the same thing. Or even capable of plotting in the same axis.
We certainly have different palates (and you like much riper wines than I do), and I would never suggest yours is wrong and mine is right. But I’d caution again making statements like “most cab drinkers would like it”, since to me, for example, there’s no real “cab” character there.
It depends what you’re going for. In some ways, it reminds me of super modern Barolo in that it’s “international wine” that tastes like expensive oak rather than where it’s from. If that’s what it’s going for, it kinda succeeds, though on the super ripe side.
OK, I might have misphrased, but general point is that I wish to protest vociferously against “ripe” becoming a synonym for “big and alcoholic”. It shouldn’t be.
I couldn’t agree more - but it came in very handy when I was recovering from Covid!
It’s always good to know how a wine is progressing - clearly those who thought that Cos 09 would become more classic in style as it aged were wrong, so far. I hope that Mark and others who have some will continue to keep us informed.
Maybe not but those three seem to run in the same circles. And let’s not forget alcohol, the fourth horseman, which is easily confused for “ripeness” as well.
I am guilty of overusing the word “ripe” in tasting notes where at times it would likely be better to specify what feature of the wine suggests it. Ripeness is a near uniformly positive descriptor, in contrast to “late picked, extracted, and manipulated", at least on WB. Probably worthy of attention in its own thread, although the 09 Cos does at least propel the concept.
This was the closest I could find:
Or, as our Jay Miller so aptly puts it: “Ripe fruit isn’t necessarily a flaw.”