Have any of you guys ever thought about cooking your own dinners?
Weak theory. Unless ‘palatable’ food is one of those things customers actually want, these places seem to do damn well. ![[tease.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/c/c5b32b76bebaa359b0452ae247b61189ffe5fa7e.gif "tease"){kind=small}
No, I believed you, I was just expounding the fact that these ‘joints’ sure have a following. One right on 22nd and Sixth in NYC! Always busy!
I understand that well… if that is how y’all meant the process was working, I agree 100%. (I’ve dined with people who seemed to think that offering up the last half-glass of a great bottle someone counted as a portion of a tip! And the servers who have poo-poo’d the offering, in conversation, were reacting to that experience - gimme a tip, not a sip.)
Contributing to the drift, I agree. But I thought it was obvious…
Men gather in steakhouses so they can leave the women at home. It’s a male bonding thing, no?
FWIW - while I do like Morton’s well enough, they have slipped dramatically in recent years, IMHO. I used to think of Wendy’s as the Morton’s of fast food, but now Morton’s is the Wendy’s of high-end steakhouses.
Has Lugar’s winelist gotten any better?
Del Frisco’s - the two times I’ve been I didn’t like my steak!
S&W - meh.
I am fond of Rainwaters in San Diego, though haven’t been in at least 5 years.
I always have to scratch my head when these corkage threads come up. Having been in the restaurant/bar biz for many years before jumping to the other side of the alcohol chain, I have a feeling many people are out of touch with those "not of their kind’. You guys do realize that there is a pretty large segment of the population which does not drink alcohol at all? ![[shock.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0b1dcf699ec319f43254f92e3f145786dcd93904.gif "shock"){kind=small}
I know, shocking. There are also quite a few people who may only partake of one glass at dinner. Yes, alcohol generally has a much greater mark up than food, so I can understand why restaurants want people to buy from their lists. But, in turn, they are not going to kick out their non-drinking clientèle because they might be messing up their profit margins. Business is business, and anything these places can get these days is a good thing. Local laws aside, I can’t imagine why places would be unduly rigid about this sort of thing.
We are all biased by our experiences… I have had an ongoing debate with a local chef of some reknown (local to chicago, but involved in projects in Vegas and other markets)… his experience was that for the “most part” people bringing in wine were doing it to “save money” or be “cheap” so he uses his corkage fees punitively, with the ability to selectively waive them (which he did for me for years). He would tell stories of the people coming in with $10 wines they picked up from Sam’s on the way to the restaurant… while I never saw that, I am sure it did happen and that colored his thinking. Of course, when he goes out, he likes to bring his own wine too, fancy that…
Linda;
I’m not sure about the direction of your thread. As stated before, I have lived the past years in three states that does not allow byob by law. Restauranteurs have told me that the competition will report them to the authorites if they allow byob, and they can get their licenses pulled. All of our Off-Lines here are at private homes, or catered private facilities.
Scott;
While on vacation or business, I have personally witnessed people bring Yellow Tail, and other such wines, into very upscale restaurants. They had, susposingly, first checked the wine list to ensure it wasn’t on the rest. list. The purpose of bringing the wine was cheap wine. In talking about one such couple with the waiter his reply was " their tip corresponded to their wine: cheap!
Personally, if I couldn’t afford, or didn’t like the wine on the list, I would just drink water. Perhaps if here in the Southern Midwest if byob was allowed, I might change my mind. But by choosing the wine first, you have mostly predetermined dinner, and then can’t take advantage of specials on the food menu. Sometimes even restaurants that typically have less than a superior wine list will surprise me with some special new wines on trial. I want to reward them by ordering the bottle not punish them by saying “NO, I brought my own.”
I do a lot of BYOB dining these days, exactly because I want to save money. But it’s not because I want to bring in a bottle of Yellow Tail. I spend a lot of money on my wine cellar, and while I can cook pretty well, sometimes I just don’t feel like it.
The max I’ll pay for corkage is $20, and that’s at a really good restaurant. Anything more than that is gouging for the sake of discouraging the practice, no matter what economic location the restaurant is in. Fortunately, there are a lot of very good and better restaurants in Chicago that allow BYOB, or are strictly BYOB.
Back to the Yellow Tail comment. I think the owner has every right to minimize that kind of thing. I know of several restaurants that allow BYOB if the wine is over 10 years old, which seems like a great compromise. Beyond that, I have two rules I live by:
-
I never try to BYOB the first time I visit a restaurant. I think a relationship should be established first.
-
I always engage the owner/chef about wines, what I collect, and if he/she would be ok with me bringing some in occasionally to work with their food. With a few exceptions, this always brings a positive invitation to bring in wine. They’re usually wine folks anyway, and that’s where the part about sharing a pour with them comes in. In these situations, a lot of time the corkage never gets charged.
In the end, it’s all in how you handle it. If you work with the owner like you’re going to be a repeat customer, for the most part they work with you. But, that’s my experience.
Hey Scott, sounds a lot like Trotter based on a conversation I had with him many years ago.
I guess the gist of what I was trying to say is that sometimes, as wine geeks, our perpective is skewed. Not everyone goes out to dinner with wine as their main perspective. Sometimes it is not even on the table (as it were).
I was born in Chicago, but moved to NW Arkansas as a teen. We moved to a dry county . Yes, there are still such places. Anyway, if profit is an argument against BYO, there are plenty of restaurants where I used to live (and in many other parts of the country) that do not serve alcohol and do just fine profit-wise, and stay in business for many decades. The reason I mention this is that profit and loss of revenue is often mentioned as a reason why some restaurants do not allow BYO. To look at in in the other perspective, think of all of the business is LOST by some of these rigid restaurants.
Eg. here in Paso we are fortunate to have many fine dining restaurants despite our small size. Two of our top restaurants are Villa Creek and Artisan. I have been to several offlines at Villa Creek, and NONE at Artisan due to their restrictive corkage policy. Is Villa Creek better as far as food is concerned? Well, they are very good, but I would put them a notch below Artisan. Would Artisan bring in more business if they changed? Obviously yes. Do they need our business? Well, I guess that if for them to determine, but if they ever do want more of our business, it would behoove them to loosen their policy.
An might I add, most of the restaurants in this area offer little if no non domestic wines. It’s great that they are trying to support our local industry, but it’s not like they are offering enough of a variety to make it attractive to many wine drinkers.
Linda, you sum-up my feelings about the subject well. In spite of how some of my posts on the subject have been interpreted, I have no desire to dictate business plans to resturants. I do, however want to make it painfully clear to establishments that insist on treating wine drinkers as a disproportionate source of revenue that I not only will refuse to spend my money there, but I will promote their competitor who is wine friendly to every acquaintance who will listen. They are losing-out because there is a wine friendly alternative in almost every case.
As Linda points out, a business plan that doesn’t rely on wine as a high profit revenue stream is more than possible, it has already been practiced by many successful establishments for decades.
It’s a big, big topic, and it would be mighty difficult to address it without stepping on a lot of toes around here.
But I get that [u]“SMH”[/u] feeling reading this thread - thinking about all the time and effort and energy and emotion and money that folks are wasting in [and on] these establishments.
It just seems to me like all that time and effort and energy and emotion and money could be devoted to much more productive [and fruitful] purposes.
I’ve been to Paso Robles once, just overnight to attend a pre-HdR pinot dinner of Augie Hug at Villa Creek. By near evening’s end, I looked at the wine list intending to order some bottles to try with friends, and, as you said, of course, they were most all local wines.
I did want to try some out (always nice to try new things, especially wines of the locality where one is), but they all looked like new releases or barely 2 years from vintage. I figured they’d be much too young to enjoy, so I didn’t order anything (note, though, that I pretty much know nothing about Paso Robles wines).
Given that a man can only [reasonably] expect to live for about 75 years [and maybe a lot less than that, and maybe with much of it spent drooling all over himself after he gets Alzheimer’s], is there an economic term for “disposable time”?
It seems to me that “time” is more of a zero-sum game.
I guess my problem is with #2.
If “home” is merely a “routine” [and I don’t mean to be putting words into your mouth], then, well, whatever…
And pursuing this discussion any further can quickly lead us into topics which are very painful to discuss.
I like Carrabas for some reason. That marsala steak is strange but I cant stay away from it.
I also love internal organs. Scott, who makes the best sweetbreads? Lydia’s in Pittsburgh so far for me but theres gotta be better.
Heres a question…Im not big into pairing, as I like to enjoy wine and food independently, but there are some things that will ruin a wine and vice versa. Outside of tripas, and buche (no o Scott 
which can and are often prepared in a relatively acidic broth/sauce that is great with beer, what kind of wine goes survives a meal with offal? Kidneys heart and tongue will make the kinds of wine I prefer (cabs and US syrah) taste dirty and too gamey, and the last time I had brain with red wine the wine turned oily. Ever thought about it?
I would think of this sort of pairing in the same vein as a pairing with a spicy Thai or Mexican dish- go sweet or slightly sweet. Now those kinds of dishes you listed would probably be way too dark for an off dry Reisling or Gewurtz, so may I channel Roberto for a bit? I think a good Lambrisco would be a good pairing. I bought one from him a few months ago, and it was wonderful. It was not overtly sweet, just very dark fruited. The slight bubbles might overcome any oiliness that might be produced by other wines. I have also paired foods like these with a super fruity and maybe even off-dry Zin, and it worked very well.
Primanti’s?
A sweet zin! that sounds right. were grilling a bunch of game tonight, I think Im going to pick up some heart and kidneys to give that a ride.