Corkage fee waiver?

[HoosJustinG]

Insisting on tasting the wine is bizarre. At a lot of traditional/Michelin rated places, they’ll grab a small glass to sniff and taste as they prepare the wine to ensure it’s sound. Insisting on a taste to sample the wine on a purely selfish basis is very weird.

[Keith_Levenberg]

When bringing wine it’s only right to offer the somm/staff a pour and when you do, you want them to enjoy it. If they think you’re going to want to pay less or tip less based on getting the pour, they’re probably going to wish they’d declined the pour and they definitely won’t enjoy it. MAny restaurant staff decline pours for this reason. They’d love to clink glasses with you but this is how they make their living and they aren’t interested in working for pours of wine even if it’s someone’s special bottle. Price of the bottle isn’t relevant - just because you’d rather have the wine than the $200 you paid for it doesn’t mean they’d rather have the wine than their service charge - you don’t even know it’s the kind of wine they like or would choose to drink if you weren’t bringing it. And, needless to say, the corkage fee goes to the restaurant, the wine goes straight into the somm’s gullet and ultimately his toilet, so one does not compensate for the other. This is a general rule. There are exceptions. If you give someone a glass of '45 Mouton you can expect some extra privileges.

[Kelly_Walker]

I do not pay corkage. If I do not know the program then I inquire before making a res. Simple. If I really want the food I will drink tea. No drama.

[ybarselah]

Just curious to know what consensus opinion is, gave the beverage director/som a pour of a $200 bottle of wine and ordered wine off the list, yet got charged a $45 corkage fee. Is that right? I’m just curious how others would feel.

yep - you were charged correctly. very nice of you to share with the somm. everything is right in the world!

[John_Morris]

Not a problem to me. A pour doesn’t negate the fee, nor does buying one. Nice to have a comp there, but I wouldn’t get upset over it.

Exactly.

Also, it may not be the somm’s perogative to waive the fee. The fees compensate the restaurant for what it’s not making in wine sales. If I were an owner, I wouldn’t want the staff comping people at will. At the least, I’d want the somm to check with the manager or to be operating within an established policy (e.g., it’s OK to waive the fee if it’s a regular, or the customer orders something off the list, brought in a large party, or some such).

[John_Morris]

When bringing wine it’s only right to offer the somm/staff a pour and when you do, you want them to enjoy it. If they think you’re going to want to pay less or tip less based on getting the pour, they’re probably going to wish they’d declined the pour and they definitely won’t enjoy it. MAny restaurant staff decline pours for this reason. They’d love to clink glasses with you but this is how they make their living and they aren’t interested in working for pours of wine even if it’s someone’s special bottle. Price of the bottle isn’t relevant - just because you’d rather have the wine than the $200 you paid for it doesn’t mean they’d rather have the wine than their service charge - you don’t even know it’s the kind of wine they like or would choose to drink if you weren’t bringing it. And, needless to say, the corkage fee goes to the restaurant, the wine goes straight into the somm’s gullet and ultimately his toilet, so one does not compensate for the other. This is a general rule. There are exceptions. If you give someone a glass of '45 Mouton you can expect some extra privileges.

+1

[Arv_R]

I’ve always been surprised by how many servers refuse wine that’s been offered to them, often under the lamest of excuses. “I cannot accept this Musar blanc because of the UN Treaty on ‘conflict’ wines” or “We dont carry the correct stemware for 720ml bottles of Vin Jaune”

[Kirk.Grant]

Just curious to know what consensus opinion is, gave the beverage director/som a pour of a $200 bottle of wine and ordered wine off the list, yet got charged a $45 corkage fee. Is that right? I’m just curious how others would feel.

The pour for the somm is irrelevant to the question of corkage. As others have said, share because you want to share and be an enjoyable customer, not because you expect, or even just hope for, something in return.

Buying a bottle off the list also doesn’t entitle you to anything, unless the restaurant has a bring-one-buy-one policy.

Both those things said, if this is a restaurant with which you hope to build a relationship, I would contact the somm or GM separately and discuss whether you might reach an understanding for future visits.

This is spot on. Different restaurants behave differently with corkage. As a general rule, I always expect to pay it if I bring a wine (I’d think twice if I was charged corkage for a wine that was not consumed as another posted about a “corked/flawed bottle”).

Also, just to be clear, if the wine on the list is $200 that’s different from another bottle that’s priced $200 at retail. When I was working in the industry I always appreciated wines that people shared, but often did not care for them. When I was on the floor opening wine, i was never given the permission to waive corkage by the owner (unless it was a flawed bottle that they brought in).

[John_Morris]

I’ve always been surprised by how many servers refuse wine that’s been offered to them, often under the lamest of excuses. “I cannot accept this Musar blanc because of the UN Treaty on ‘conflict’ wines” or “We dont carry the correct stemware for 720ml bottles of Vin Jaune”

I certainly hope you have the Riedels for 720ml Vin Jaune at home.

[alan_weinberg]

I always offer a pour but I’ve learned to pour it for them after one somm took a 6 oz pour for himself. And I’m grateful for corkage waiver but don’t expect it.

[Barry_L_i_p_t_o_n]

I think this is exactly correct while also believing this was poor form by the Somm.

what’s the poor form by the Somm?

The wine community is often a generous sort and I am among those who without fail share wines with staff regardless of corkage fees whether they exist or are waived or are honored. This exchange of sharing wine in restaurants is more like a dance of give-and-take between parties and a friendly relationship can be formed. If the Somm takes the sampling plus the customer buys wine off the list and nothing is offered in return this dance was very one-sided. While the Somm has no obligation to offer the patron anything in return (fee waiver, offer of a dessert, whatever), the signal was sent loud and clear that this Somm is not someone who cares to participate in establishing much of a relationship. I consider that poor form.

It’s not like buying something off the menu (food,wine) is a one sided favor done by the patron for the restaurant. Nothing offered “in return”. Because there is no “return”, it’s already a bilateral arrangement where both gave and gotten what they want. As mentioned above, the taste and the corkage fee are independent actions with separate counter parties (restaurants, restaurant employees).

Some somms have authority, some don’t. And if they are compensated as a share of wine sales, the Somm is providing the service without much compensation. They might not even be in the regular tip pool.

[dougwilder]

Does the restaurant have a corkage policy and does it say anything about how to put their professional staff in untenable positions as soon as they put wine stems on the table? Does the sommelier exhibit any interest in the wine, to begin with? The act of giving something with the expectation of a disproportionate courtesy provided in return is an imposition. How many times does she need to politely accept a taste and pretend that an overpriced average wine foisted on her is spectacular and comp the guest for the ‘honor’ of a measly one-ounce pour? It is important to realize that not all $200 wines are created equal - is it a 2014 Beta Montecillo Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon, or the latest Caymus Special Selection? Also, no idea what was bought from the list. Was it over $150, or less than $40? I’ve never worked in restaurants though I believe the whole idea is for them to show their guests a great time and make a profit.

I am no longer surprised how much people are willing to spend on wine, yet presume to make up their own rules on how to enjoy it in someone else’s business as cheaply as possible, but then I forgot that everyone is tipping 20% on the $200 bottle they brought, right?

[Philip_N_Jones]

Ditto that

[Jonathan_Jetter]

Just a question. How would you feel if a somm insisted he get a glass of an expensive wine you brought without you even offering it? I had this happen once and I thought it was strange.

Somm asking politely = no problem at all.

Somm insisting = super weird, awkward, and way out of line IMO.

But I’ve never had that happen.

Now, granted, I’m not bringing multi-thousand dollar Burgundy, etc, so maybe the somms serving me just don’t care as much? More often I’m bringing rare Loire, or old Musar, or traditional Bordeaux that’s really great but not 1st growth, etc.

Usually, it goes like: I offer a pour. They politely decline. I repeat the offer just once, so they know I mean it. They usually take a very small pour. I let them know it’s ok if they want a little more than that, but no pressure. And then it’s all good.

If they waive the corkage, great. If not, still fine. I just don’t view it as an obligation on their part.

[Arv_R]

Usually, it goes like: I offer a pour. They politely decline. I repeat the offer just once, so they know I mean it. They usually take a very small pour. I let them know it’s ok if they want a little more than that, but no pressure. And then it’s all good.

You’re only doing the first part! After the pour it’s incumbent that you share your wisdom on the terroir, climate, clone, winemaker, acquisition of said bottle and so on. If you hand carried it back from the 5th, be sure to discuss the creaky floors of the narrow wine shop. And never forget that if the wine scored 94 pts from Luca Maroni, alert them to this unheralded sensory analyst.

Don’t fill their glass, yet leave their soul empty!

If your family has declared wine discussion non grata at dinner, my interpretation is that does not apply to the servers/somms.

[J_Rock]

I imagine it’s very rare for the somm or server to own the restaurant, so how they’d even be able to waive the revenue on behalf of the restaurant is beyond me, although I realize it might happen occasionally. To me, it’s like expecting a waiter to comp a dish because I tip well.

Jordan,

Curious - have you ever been in a restaurant where the corkage fee was waived for you for any reason? If not, I completely understand your comments, but I think many others have experienced this - either due to purchasing a bottle off their list to ‘compensate’ for bringing a bottle or for other reasons.

Cheers.

Yes, but it’s usually waived due to official policy of the restaurant – like buying a bottle off the list and getting your corkage comped on a bottle. While I certainly wouldn’t mind, I’d never expect staff to forgo collecting the restaurant’s revenue because I gave a taste of my wine. At the sushi spot I regularly go to near my house, I share my wine with my waiter and head chef/owner a decent amount of time and they’ve never waived corkage, but I’m just happy to share some wine with people that are providing me with a lovely experience.

To be clear, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being happy if/when your corkage is waived or not wanting to pay expensive corkage in the first place, but I just can’t relate to someone who expects part of the bill to be comped just because he or she is being generous.

[ybarselah]

i love these threads. truly i do. the wine internet community is such a unique snowflake. the only reasonable corkage policy is not to allow it.

and this thread - and all others prior - proves this point. the ability of humans to complicate something so simple is always surprising and awe-inspiring.

[Andrew_K]

One might suggest to bring nicer wine next time.

My previous response was rather snarky, so here’s a real response. Last night brought wine to a new restaurant, stated corkage fee on the website. The owner came up to the table and I asked if he liked wine and he said he did so I offered him a glass. Gave him a reasonable pour and he said it was really good, although he knows nothing about Burg and drinks mainly Napa Cab. We talked for a while and I thanked him for his reasonable corkage policy. When the check came I never even looked at it to see if they had waived the corkage as I assumed it would be on there as agreed beforehand.

[GregT]

When bringing wine it’s only right to offer the somm/staff a pour and when you do, you want them to enjoy it. If they think you’re going to want to pay less or tip less based on getting the pour, they’re probably going to wish they’d declined the pour and they definitely won’t enjoy it. MAny restaurant staff decline pours for this reason. They’d love to clink glasses with you but this is how they make their living and they aren’t interested in working for pours of wine even if it’s someone’s special bottle.

This is a good point. As customers, we go to a restaurant for the experience. And since we like wine, we figure we’re doing everyone a big favor by sharing. But for the schmucks working there, we’re as much a pain in the ass as we are enjoyable, maybe more of the former than the latter. Whether working in a wine-focused restaurant or not, most people don’t obsess over wine and while I always offer to share, it’s really to soothe their feelings more than to get anything extra, except maybe an extra glass or two.

And when selecting a wine, I always ask the somm about it, whether I know it or not. Most people love to offer opinions about what they know, or think they know (witness this board) and that bit of conversation helps the relationship. And some somms really are a pleasure to talk to anyway. Staff? You need to take the measure of the individual each time. Some care, some don’t.

But if I were bringing a bottle, I ALWAYS call first to understand the ground rules. And often as not, I’m at the restaurant anyway and I ask what they would charge if I brought my own wine next time. That way at least they know I’m a customer.

It’s all social engineering. Now that everyone is virtual, it’s difficult to deal with the real world sometimes.

[M.Kaplan]

…
I am no longer surprised how much people are willing to spend on wine, yet presume to make up their own rules on how to enjoy it in someone else’s business as cheaply as possible, but then I forgot that everyone is tipping 20% on the $200 bottle they brought, right?

Amen.