Cork vs Screwcap

WINE TALK
21

Are you serious ?

22

Sarcasm…

I stopped buying white Burgs years ago due to premox. Used to be a major part of my cellar. No more. There’s enough evidence for the superiority of screwcaps that I would start buying again if they switched. There are too few of us to influence the producers.

23

Cork or screw cap have no influence on what I buy. I buy based on tasting, knowledge of the producer, recommendations of fellow tasters.

24

In my non-scientific experiences if you drink the wine in it’s first 4 years since bottling the wine is just fine.

25

I was very surprised this year how much I like screwcaps for drinking on day two and three. Wine seemed fresher than expected.

26

Care to explain further?

27

And that’s the bummer. I’m sure producers don’t want to make or ship ‘faulty’ products, but until enough folks stop buying, there’s no economic reason to change.

And as new wine drinkers come on board who truly don’t understand pre-mox (just as many don’t 'understand ’ TCA), they’ll think the wines are just fine.

Cheers.

28

But Larry you know that important white Burgundy producers have changed closures along with their winemaking and bottling facilities…but the closures mainly to DIAM rather than screwcap [wink.gif]

While others have sought better natural cork suppliers and upped their selection procedures.

Doesn’t mean that DIAM is universally better or preferred but that the winemakers have decided that it works best with the way they make their wine just as the same applies to those who prefer screwcaps and, still, natural cork.

And premox or pox or prem-ox but surely not pre-mox [bye.gif]

29

Appears the second bottle from left (cork closure of some type) has done just as well or better. Just saying.

30

True, but you don’t know what cork you are getting until it’s too late. Cork is a highly variable product with limited means to control that variation.

31

And the same applies as to which screw cap you chose to use.

I would love to see the same pic but adding in various types of screw caps and that glass/seal type stopper as well.

32

Riveting thread. Why haven’t we discussed this issue in the past? deadhorse

33

That’s a selection of liner, not random variation. Once the choice is made the results are very consistent because the manufacturing process can actually be controlled. If you would like to discuss variation in manufacturing processes let me know and I can bore you for days.

34

Two '09 1er cru white burgs yesterday (Les Referts) Faiveley was oxidized, Carrilon was fresh. '08 screw cap Nz chard from well regarded producer was fresher still.

Last week '08 from another top NZ Chard producer under cork…first one oxidized, second one alive but flatter than expected.

35

As consumers, the choice between cork, screwcap and glass stopper will always come down to personal preference and experience which is in turn dictated by the types of wines that you drink.

Personally, I feel about corks purely as a technology the same way I feel about newspapers and magazines, vinyl records, cassettes and CDs, videotapes, camera film, landline phones, and paper books: it’s for luddites and belongs in the past. There is no stopping progress, so look forward or get left behind.
This said, there are valid reasons why vinyl records and camera film are making a comeback, paper book sales went up last year while digital book sales fell, and cork is still around. People still want them and have a use for them.

I am rabidly pro-glass stopper, then rabidly pro screwcap and make no secret of it. I have posted on this before, but my thorough belief is that a wine that I as a consumer want tasting as fresh and lively 10 years from now as the day it was bottled, it should be under glass stopper or screwcap. If a wine is known to show major improvement with aging, particularly when it comes to softening of tannins, then I feel it should be under natural cork.

I drink, of course, a lot of sweet wine but am now experiencing the enjoyment of the inevitable palate shift to drier wines while still enjoying my sweeties. My preferences are as follows:

  • Glass stopper and screwcaps should be used exclusively for icewines, white passitos and reciotos, vin santos, white Rhones, pre-aged red wines (assuming the producer pre-aged and released to what they felt was the wine at its best showing), Alsacian wines, German Riesling, late harvests, TBAs and any fortified wine that will NOT improve with age (ex: blended Tawny Ports)

  • Cork should be used on ALL unaged red table wine upon release and fortified wines that will improve with age (ex: vintage Port, Banyuls, Maury, etc.). The risk of oxidation and TCA are worth the improvements that will be gained.

This is just my humble opinion as a consumer. And as fellow consumers, I’m sure many of you agree somewhat with the above or are rabidly contrary to it as many others are. I could see Sauternes or Tawny Port fans absolutely losing it, for example, if their favorite wines suddenly showed up under screwcap or glass stopper at their local wine store. And that would be completely justifiable based on their own preferences.

What a producer decides is based entirely upon different criteria. Many reasons are purely financial. Some honestly like/dislike the way their wines develop under one type of closure. Some stick with a type because “that’s just how it’s always been done.” Others are simply skeptical and unconvinced by current data.

It’s easy to criticize as a consumer either way. It’s not so easy when you’re a producer whose wine won’t sell in China because there is a prejudice against screwcaps there and you realize how much potential money won’t be coming into your pockets from that market because of your choice of a closure which amounts to sometimes less than a single dollar. Or contrarily, you’re losing money due to a high level of prem-ox and TCA returns.

Another thing to consider: imagine you’re a producer who has put sweat, time, risk and money into your glorious wine. You’ve packaged anywhere from $20 - 5000 worth of liquid gold into a single bottle and then you find out that most consumers couldn’t give a crap about that but care far more about how your bottle is sealed. How could you not pull your hair out? Yet deciding which sub-$1 closure is probably one of the most important financial decisions you’ll ever make.

I’m not making light of this, I know it’s a serious consideration for all winemakers. Here alone in Ontario, Canada, I have talked to many different wineries and they’re of extremely diametrically opposed opinions on the matter. Some are rabidly pro-screwcap, others pro-cork, and some have even started with one, switched, and then reverted back. There is no right or wrong. It has to be a choice that the producer can live with and will benefit them in the long run.

One last thought: I have never seen studies of premium red under screwcap or glass stopper, but I would love to see if they could age as well as they do under cork. As a consumer, I will personally celebrate the day it is proven, if ever.

36

Still awaiting a reply from my above question . . .

37

Agree entirely. There is no such thing as the 'perfect closure ’ but it’s good to know what you are getting yourself into with each one . . .

38

Tran,

While you are of course entitled to your opinion, it is logically flawed in several areas.

If you are going to put cork in the wines most typically aged, then you are putting the risk on the wines that will take up space for a long time, and be nearly impossible to replace 15 years later when it turns out the anachronistic closure has failed.

We can discuss the flaws in your logic for white wines some other time.

39

For me, this issue is simple. Do you agree corks have issues? Yes? Wonderful. Do you have any reason to think screw tops would be WORSE? No? Then WTF, dude?

40

Unless my phone made me an inaccurate reader, always a substantial possibility, you didn’t mention the one kind of wine as to which this is the most salient issue.