Indeed. It is not that a problem or mistake occurs, but rather how it is dealt with.
Some including myself have stuck with copain during their trial and error membership/allocation period. It’s fine by me, I like the wines and I’ve never felt pressured to buy more than what I normally would.
You are probably amazed that people have stuck with copain, there are others that are equally amazed that you stuck with anthill after the 08 smoke fiasco. To say copain has lost credibility trying to tweak its membership program is ridiculous. Lets also look back, it was copain who didn’t release their 08s due to smoke but anthill did. I’d rather give my money to the winery that realizes their flaws and has their customers best interest at heart.
I’m amazed that you have stuck with anthill after 2008 but a little membership program tweaking by copain has you jumping ship.
Mike and Bill, well said.
The way I see it, last year’s club was an effort by Copain to secure a commitment from its loyal customers in exchange for a discount on the wines and free shipping. They honestly thought we’d be excited about getting the discount. Of course some people will not like change, and the rollout was bungled by confusing communications. Copain’s effort to talk to everyone personally about it is an outgrowth of their commitment to hospitality, although they might not have realized that many people would consider this an inconvenience compared to a clearly worded email.
I love the wines and had been buying at or above the club level already, so for me it was a discount on the wine, in exchange for the inconvenience of having customize my order within a narrow window. I didn’t like this but I like the wine so much that was willing to play along for the discounted prices. Kudos to Copain for stepping up and fixing the one thing that I disliked about the club.
I have a list of a number of companies I don’t do business with for one reason or another. The club rollout for me doesn’t even come close to what a place might do to lose my business. I can understand, however, that there are a lot of great wines out there. I don’t know how much people like us make up a winery’s bottom line, but they should realize that we typically buy more wine than we should, and are therefore find ourselves looking for any excuse at all to drop off a list. The club rollout IMO doesn’t rate the kind of poor customer service that would lose my business, and to say this cost them their credibility is completely over the top. However, if the wines rated lower on my list, then I can see how this would do it, but that would be about my taste for the wines, and not about the club program.
I am with Mike 100%
This is my best wine club. The combination of svd wines(pinot and chard for me) along with a 15% discount on daily drinkers is what I am looking for.
I am in for two cases of svd and have already ordered my fist case of "other: wine for the year.
Haters, going to hate, but this club in my opinion leaves many others standing still.
Tyler, I guess I’m just a softie when a producer mistakenly sells a wine that turns out to be flawed, like Anthill’s 2008 Anderson Valley appellation blend. I also stuck with Rhys after they sold some dodgy 2004 syrah. All of my favorite Burg producers sold flawed 2004’s and I stuck with them too. Anthill’s response to the problem was not as good as Rhys’ response, but was better than Burgundy’s. Adam Lee helped me understand the difficulties and complexities of dealing with smoke taint. I’ve commented before about the striking parallels between that single Anthill wine and the '04 Burg situation. So yes, I gave them a Mulligan on that wine.
The Copain situation seems different, at least to me. Copain proposed an agreement, I carried out my end, but when it came time for Copain to perform, they changed the deal. To me, that damaged their credibility.
BTW, if I liked the Copain wines as much as I like Anthill, I may have given Copain a Mulligan also. But I don’t, so I didn’t… 
I’m not a hater by any means – I have bought and drunk many cases of Copain wines, I’ve visited there, I still have a couple of cases worth in my cellar – but why does this club leave many others standing still? Most other similar producers like them simply offer you an allocation 2 or 3 times a year and you buy what you want, with the caveat that you may get dropped off if you don’t buy for a number of offerings in a row. Rhys, Dehlinger, KB, Carlisle, etc. etc.
What makes this superior to the regular model? If it’s the 15% discount, keep in mind that many of these wines have stepped up considerably in list price in the last few years while they have switched to these wine club options, so it may be less of a discount for regular customers than it is a price hike for those who don’t commit to large quantities of the wine.
I moved on from Copain after the last confusing and unsatisfying set of wine club programs, and particularly what I perceived as the lack of communication and lack of sensitivity to their customer base that accompanied it. I’m not angry, I don’t hold a grudge, and I probably would have stuck around had there been a program like this at that time (instead of needing to buy 2 or 3 cases per year – I just don’t buy that much of almost any one producer, much less one as pricey as Copain, and this new offer suggests to me that there were many others like me who didn’t bite on those wine club plans), but sometimes just as you tend to stick with someone out of momentum, you also don’t go back to someone out of inertia. Plus, like so many of us, I buy and spend too much, I struggle to drop lists and obligations, and once I’ve successfully done that with one, I’m pretty reluctant to add it back.
If money, storage and marital harmony were not pressures for me, there is a pretty good chance I’d sign up for this new plan. I’ll think on it, maybe there will be a time to do it at some point. I don’t perceive that Copain will be difficult to add in the future if it makes sense for me to do so.
None of that is meant to criticize Copain or to question any of you who are happy customers, but just my effort to give the perspective of someone who came out differently on it.
Chris, a very well-reasoned reply to the “hater” characterization.
I’m still curious as to the answer to the question whether the 12 or 24 bottle minimum means only SVDs or all wines. The email/letter is ambiguous on this point. (Same question re: whether free shipping on 3 btls or more only applies to SVDs – i.e., if I order 3 btls of Les Voisins, do I get free shipping?)
If someone knows or discovers the answer to this question, I’m curious as well. The program that immediately preceded the controversial 2-3 case/year wine club one was just that you had to buy 12 bottles per year to stay on the list, and it could be any bottles.
Ezra said that three bottle free shipping was any three bottles, SVD, Voisins, Ensemble, whatever.
The web form that you fill out to select your case has only SVD wines, so I imagine you need to buy a case of SVD wines, although I didn’t clarify that point.
Michael
There are 2 clubs, SVD and Appellation. The SVD is the premier club and gives you all the benefits. If you are an existing mailing list member you only have to pre-select a case of SVD wines each year. You can also order whatever additional wines you want and as long as it is 3 or more you get the 15% discount and free shipping. Really pretty simple and easy to understand. No-brainer for me.
I just completed my club order and I’m very happy with this new arrangement. It’s no different than a traditional mailing list, except that they’re asking you to commit to 12 SVDs over 1 year (which is not an issue for me - it took self-restraint to hold it to 24 bottles) and in exchange they’re offering 15% discount and free shipping. Plus I don’t need to worry about getting my order in within release windows. In all a great system.
Of course the discount offsets price increases, but I’m fine with that. The price of everything goes up. Why would I demand a winemaker absorb increasing cost of production? The only price I’m really questioning is the Halcon Syrah. It will be interesting to taste Paul’s offering against Wells’ over the next few years.
I went and looked on the website, which remains as [searching for a non-inflammatory adjective here] “challenging” as in the past, both in terms of the information on there and the operation of the site. Here is what they say about wine club options to the general public:
BECOME A MEMBER
We welcome your interest in Copain’s Membership Program. There are two tiers of the Membership Program. Single Vineyard Membership, the most comprehensive level, focuses on our limited-production wines, offers the top level of benefits, and affords full customization on all orders. Appellation Membership, the perfect introduction to our Tous Ensemble and Les Voisins wines, offers selective benefits, and partial customization.
If you are interested in our Single Vineyard Membership, please call us at 707.836.8822.
Appellation Membership $0.00
Receive six bottles of Copain wines twice a year and enjoy member pricing and complimentary shipping on your Appellation shipments. The spring release will consist of Tous Ensemble Chardonnay, Tous Ensemble Rosé, and a limited-production Winemaker’s Selection. If you would like to customize your spring release, please contact us, otherwise we will be pleased to send you 2 bottles of each. The fall release, planned for October, will consist of 3 bottles of Les Voisins Pinot Noir and 3 bottles of Les Voisins Syrah.0 1 Add To Cart Update Cart
Added to cart Cart updated Removed from cart
Add on: Single Vineyard Supplement $0.00
If you are interested in acquiring Copain’s Single Vineyard wines in addition to the 12 bottles of Appellation wines, you may choose the Single Vineyard supplement. We will include 6 Single Vineyard wines with your Appellation wines, so that you receive 9 bottles total in each shipment.0 1 Add To Cart Update Cart
Added to cart Cart updated Removed from cart
So, nothing about discounts, free shipping, or any way to even buy SVDs except by getting 6 of them per year on top of your 12 regional wines. I logged in, and found this in the membership area:
Wine Club Subscription: Join Club
Club Tier
Single Vineyard - 12 btl minimumEnjoy our top level of benefits at this tier, available only to winery customers with legacy status. Please scroll down to fully customize your spring and fall releases.
AppellationReceive an assortment of Tous Ensemble and Les Voisins wines. If you would like to customize your spring release, please contact the winery.
Again, nothing about shipping, discounts, or any other information. I suppose if I called Ezra, I could get the scoop on the new options and discounting, but seriously, why do they make this stuff so opaque? Why not just have a program and state it clearly like everyone else does? Are they just not good at communication, or are they trying to cultivate a “this is a special deal just for you favored insiders” kind of vibe, or what?
Again, I’m not angry, I’m not demanding that anyone come kiss my ring and woo me to join, and I’m sure if I wanted to strike a deal, I could track down someone there and hash things out. But since we’re discussing this, I’m curious if anyone understands why they go about it this way.
I just placed an order for 6 anderson valleys and 6 tous ensem chards, I received 15% off and free shipping, so yes it (the discount and shipping) does apply to all their wines, not just the svd.
The purchase commitment is for ONLY SVD so if your new, its 24 bottles, and from what I can tell, if your existing, its 12 bottles…but they all have to be svd (as it was last year).
I will never understand why anyone puts so much effort into discussing something they dont like, or dont want to buy…if the website, or the deal, or any aspect of the club displeases you, simply dont buy…why all the long drawn out replies here.
I actually looked on there because I was curious about the new program, not because I was looking for grist for an argument, but I guess I do find the whole topic interesting in a weird way.
As I said in that post, I understand I can not buy or I can call them and figure it out, but since we’re talking about it in detail (and this is a discussion board), I am just genuinely curious about why they go about things the way they do. I say that knowing full well there probably isn’t any particular answer to my question, though.
Could I ask someone to post the SVD prices and selection for the upcoming year if you’re in the club, since I can’t get to that stage on the website? Thanks.
PRODUCTS
Mininum Bottle Quantity: 12
Spring Release - Brosseau Chardonnay
Member: $46.75
Spring Release - Kiser En Bas Pinot Noir
Member: $59.50
Spring Release - Kiser En Haut Pinot Noir
Member: $63.75
Spring Release - Hawks Butte Syrah
Member: $38.25
Spring Release - Halcon Syrah
Member: $47.60
Fall Release - Laureles Grade Chardonnay
Member: $46.75
Fall Release - Monument Tree Pinot Noir
Member: $59.50
Fall Release - Wentzel Pinot Noir
Member: $55.25
Fall Release - Baker Ranch Syrah
Member: $38.25
Fall Release - Brosseau Syrah
Member: $38.25
Mark, it is a wine discussion board. Why is it hard to understand that discussions might include a range of opinions? Wineberserkers would be a very boring site if only concurring opinions were to be posted, IMO. Personally, I find it both interesting and educational to see a range of opinions about the topic under discussion… YMMV.
Existing mailing list members received a nice marketing piece via mail with a call from Ezra letting me know that it was coming and if I had any questions to please feel free to call him. I can’t speak for the website usability or lack thereof.
Thanks, Jan. Is that the pricing after all discounts (including the 3 bottle 15% one), or would any of those be on top of these prices?