Clayton, thanks for your comments. I’m intrigued and must take a more systematic look at those home vineyard wines. Like you, I have liked the growers series wines I have tried, but they are at a different price point, and often available at discount.
Cheers, Howard
Some very interesting points and questions being raised. Here’s an attempt to summarize my views, hopefully in a helpful way. For context, I have enjoyed and cellared NZ PN since the mid 90s (94 vintage onwards roughly) including most “major” names.
Ageability: I have a strong preference for aged wines, so my opinions are tainted by that. The jury is definitely out for “long” term cellaring, but I also believe there’s been marked improvements since the early 00s. Some of this would be attributable to a lot of screwcaps over cork coming in, some down to just vine age and better winemaking through knowing the vineyard and fruit. For example, I don’t think any of the Ata Rangi PNs since 2000 are past it (only had under screwcap in 750s, several magnums under cork). “Newer” producers just don’t have that same track record. Disappointment from not aging that well has made me go off several labels, including Felton Road.
Regions: I hold Martinborough as king, with patches of great performance from Waipara and Otago. Marlborough and Nelson have one good producer each (Fromm, Neudorf) so I wouldn’t draw “regional” conclusions from those. To me, Otago PNs are fun young and often a good restaurant choice because of that.
Producers: My favorite at the moment is Bell Hill because they do not rely on fruit sweetness to carry the wines. This just shows my prejudice - and perhaps it stands out because it is different in the NZ context. It’s too early for me to know much about how they age, given the oldest I’ve had is 2007 / 5 years old. They are expensive (but then so are many others) but worth it to me, weighing up against really good NSG 1ers at that price. I wish their second label (Old Weka) were cheaper because it’s actually quite good… but $50 odd? It is definitely more “forward” and fruit oriented than the main wine. Other producers mentioned:
Dry River: There’s no denying their ability to age and that these wines have “character”. Accusations that they do not show pinosity/typicity are quite fair. But I think they DO taste of PN, and many of them are actually “lower” alcohol. I imagine that personal preference comes in and if you like culty Cali PN - or Leroy - you might well enjoy these a lot. I took a 2001 (I think) to an impromptu Sydney offline a few months back, and reluctantly, for me, it was one of the most engaging wines.
Ata Rangi: Very good quality consistently, as I said in my first post. The '00 is gorgeous now, the '98 is “characterful”, some vintages have been weaker but all in the last decade still very enjoyable for me.
Martinborough Vineyards: The “reserves” from the 90s were benchmark wines at the time (the '98 famously did rather well in some blind tasting 2 years ago I think, and started to go at auction for $500 lol) with the '94 at the end of the road, the '96 clinging on, the '97 should never have been made. The '98 has a thing that puts me in mind of during oak, so I actually prefer the (much lighter and more developed) regular label '98. I have not tried the MZs. The regular labels are reliable, age decently (often they need at least a couple of year, being more grumpy on release).
Felton Road: I put away all the Block 3s and 5s from about '98 - '03. I stopped buying because I didn’t like most of them when checking in at about the four-year point. They DO taste deliciously like a million bucks on release, great restaurant choice but trophy pricing. I only ever really got 2-3 bottles of the blocks per vintage, so my problems with age could have been bad luck (they were all well-stored) or just bad taste. More recent vintages might be phenomenal, and even those I didn’t like might have turned around, but I’ve just not had a compelling reason to go try to buy them again.
Pyramid Valley: Character - tick; Consistency - errr… I’ve stopped buying, with prices increasing ever further. Some really good experiences, some very poor ones. Exceptional customer service, so I do recommend people give them a try.
Rippon and Gibbston Valley: really a gap in my tasting experience, partly brought on by the examples I have had not exciting me enough.
Neudorf: Decent, and full of “Pinot” flavors thanks to the cooler area. Enjoyable, but they don’t move me.
Fromm: Definitely worth a try, but a marginal climate (too cool). Too many bottles were overtly reduced (from 98 - 02). Some very high points and some more average ones. What makes them great is a more savory style, textured and structured rather than plum and oak.
Very interesting thoughts Rauno.
My experience and views about Martinborough and the Gibbston Valley are similar to yours. The latter, Peregrine apart, I consider quite a way behind Martinborough and Bannockburn.
Along with Pyramid Valley, I need to look at more Bell Hill, who there is a lot of buzz about.
Felton Road apart, I agree with most of your points.
I tasted a bigger sized Dry River 2003 blind and thought it was ok. If only it was more Leroy-like …
Off topic, are you going to the Regional Burgundy tasting tomorrow?
Cheers, Howard
Hi Howard - can’t make the tasting, though there’s a few in there I would have liked to try (Boillot CBM!). Hope you enjoy it. 03 DR was very big - I’ve probably most enjoyed some of the lighter vintages like '04, '00 and '97.
This must be the biggest conversation i’ve ever seen here on NZ wine. Great stuff. And we haven’t even talked about what I think are historically NZs best and most ageable reds - Coleraine and Larose.
I guess i’ll keep the conversation going while the NZers are in bed.
I’d be interested in seeing the climate data, but my observation on Central Otago from the 2 times I’ve been there in summer is that it is really hot. I get that it has cool nights and cold winters, but the sun just beats down and bakes the parched earth during summer. I would suspect it’s warmer than Waipara, Waitaki, Marlborough and Nelson. Not sure on Martinborough, but the wind there may keep things cooler. I think this heat, combined with the over reliance of Dijon clones may result in the most fruit forward of the top NZ Pinots. Obviously there are microclimates, different terroir, planting and winemaking choices within the region.
In some ways I think Marlborough might be an undiscovered region for NZ Pinot. Much of it has historically been grown on the alluvial river plains. But the vineyards in the hills are showing a lot of promise. It’s interesting that you think Fromm’s vineyards might be too cool, Rauno. Either way I have seen very compelling cases for Marlborough Pinot Noit from Fromm, Terravin, Pyramid Valley, Villa Maria, Seresin and Auntsfield (as is Neudorf offer in Moutere) - all from hillside vineyards.
Which is another point. I agree that Martinborough is the top dog today, but believe that is a factor of vine age as well as some top producers who have refined their craft over a long time. If i recall correctly, most of the vineyards, however are on alluvial planes, and i wonder if they have an upper limit in terms of how high they can set the bar.
I have nothing to add other than this is a great thread, very informative. Thx to all who have contributed.
First off I sell wine here in Oregon. I sell about 20+ producers in my store. I think my 2 favorites would be Ata Rangi and Felton Road. I actually got to go to New Zealand back in June 2006. One of the tasting I got to attend was Pinot at Cloudy Bay. They poured the Pinots blind which were from around the world. They were all from 2003. This is certainly not a usual type of vintage from a heat standpoint. There were a couple each from Oregon, California, and Burgundy. Naturally there were several from New Zealand. I also took along 2 cases of Oregon wines, mostly Pinot Noir, for tastings with different wineries while we were there. One of the people I got to meet was Helen Masters from Ata Rangi. Everyone I met was great to talk to. Going forward it is fun to see and taste some of the newcomers. I also do sell Sineann 2012 Pinot Noir Pisa Terrace as I got to taste it a couple months ago. I have also been impressed with Ellero who sold grapes to Peter Rosback, and Mondillo from Central Otago. I have also been impressed with Pegasus Bay from Waipara.
Clayton - you make some good points about climate and aspect. Just to clarify, I did simplify re Fromm but it is probably a marginal climate for PN. But they seldom turn out an under-ripe PN - heck, given that some years they get the Syrah ripe it can’t be THAT marginal 
. Do you happen to know how Marlborough climate compares to Waipara? Ultimately, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are several specific vineyards on slopes that eclipse Martinborough - it’s happening already.
Rauno, I don’t know how Waipara and Marlborough compare. Would love to see some good climate charts put together like the Rhys folks have on their website.
Another thing we haven’t discussed much is clones. The older plantings are mainly 10/5, Abel and Davis (Pommard). I believe 10/5 is the most widely planted, but the weakest clone. Then again some of it has been planted for long enough that they may also be considered heritage clones (and may be at the stage they are or will have mutated to suit NZ terroir).
The PN planting boom was largely focused on Dijon clones, which I think is unfortunate. I feel like they tend to give off more of a clonal signature than be transparent.
Now I think we’re seeing some vineyards with lots of clonal diversity and massale selections, which I suspect will be the best answer.
I love that this thread just happened. It is basically going to be my “to-do” list for when I visit NZ next month, both for wineries to visit and bottles to seek out at restaurants!
I haven’t spent much time on the board lately but really fun to see a NZ P.N. thread on the 1st page.
After Burgundy, Otago represents the next largest P.N. region in my cellar at about a 12-1 ratio.
Some we get, some are harder to find in Ontario. A few I’ve never seen.
I buy Felton, Mt. Diff, Carrick, Amisfield & used to buy Pisa Range. Have tried most of the other well known names except P.V. which I don’t think comes here. Still buy a few of the less expensive producers too from time to time from other areas like Wither Hills, Craggy & Spy Valley. Love those value NZ pinot’s.
I’ve found that I generally enjoy their evolution up to 8-10 years tops then I notice a decline, at least in the bottles from my cellar. Given vine & industry age , I don’t see this as surprising or feel there’s something I’m missing out on. It’s why I like them - very little patience required.
I’ve also found the quality range within most producers I buy to be quite compact. I often enjoy the basic bottling just as much as their single vineyard or special wines (wish I could say that about Burg) which generally run between 45- 90% more expensive here.
Those costs are more likely the result of the small amount being imported here than what the cellar door price is. I’ve stopped buying Pisa Range as I noted a few vintages started to take on a strong coffee note by 5-6 years from vintage. I get that tinge here & there within Otago, but their’s was getting intense.
Thanks all for your comments. I’m as surprised as anyone that this thread is of such interest.
Clayton, you raise a good point about NZ PN vineyard siting, which others will be able to comment more expertly about than me. But I’ll give some background for some who don’t know the areas as well as you.
Martinborough does not grow PN by chance. In the 1970s our science Ministry (DSIR) published some research that the poor farming area would be ideal for grape growing. There were no vineyards there at the time. The main reason is that Martinborough is very low rainfall because the nearby Tararua mountains create a rain shadow (all of the rain is dumped on the mountains and usually doesn’t make it to Martinborough). In wine terms it is cool climate, so is much more suited to ripening Burgundy than Bordeaux varieties. The persistent wind is more of an annoyance than a factor in ripening the PN as I understand it.
The other factor is geology. The earliest vineyards around the township were planted on the old river terraces of the Ruamahanga river. The soil is silt loam with up to 15m deep alluvial deposits, with the stones helping to reduce diurnal temperature variations (and reduce sweet and sour flavour combinations you can see in some immature NZ PN). That area is tiny (about 1 km x 5 km) and now full. It is no surprise that the big new Martinborough vineyards, including Escarpment and Craggy Range, are sited on old river terraces in Te Muna Rd.
Many years ago Brodie T did some work in this area and would be able to comment more expertly than me.
The original vineyards (including Ata Rangi and Martinborough Vineyards) made a big call to plant their pioneering vineyards with PN in the late '70s, early '80s and are now reaping their reward in vine age.
I don’t know if the alluvial plains nature of Martinborough will limit its development.
Most NZ vineyards have a maritime climate. The only exceptions are the Central Otago ones that are the highest elevated and so far inland the climate is continental. It is a similar longitude south to Burgundy in the northern hemisphere (45 deg south cf 47 deg north) and the southernmost vineyard area in the world. Therefore it has hot, dry, reliable summers and snow in winter (but so does Burgundy, and is not an issue). Fruit quality is typically very high and triaging and declassification is minimal. The Bannockburn vineyards are also largely on north facing slopes.
In the weekend it poured with rain when I was at the Queenstown airport. Later in the day, 50 kms away, at Felton Road I asked about the rain. It had barely registered on their rain equipment. Blair said that his vineyard gets a third to a quarter of the rainfall at the airport. The Southern Alps produce a rain shadow effect (as low as 400 mm per annum I understand.
My point is that these are small, special areas, that should produce truly special wines in the future as their vines age.
You are perceptive IMO to cite Marlborough as the up and coming NZ PN region. That was the buzz of the recent PN Conference and I would put the Auntsfield sub-region at the head of that.
There are a huge variety of clones used in Martinborough, particularly in the older blocks. I have the Ata Rangi clonal breakdown somewhere. From memory, in Martinborough, there is a lot of 10/5 and Dijon. Worryingly not all of the older blocks are fully Phylloxera resistant.
Cheers, Howard
Yes, great thread - something I actually know something about (though for specific wines, I defer to the Kiwis who are able to sample more widely).
In my limited experience, it’s apparent that hillside Marlborough vineyards will transform the reputation of its Pn’s. The valley floor fruit just doesn’t have it, being suited to making value wines at best.
Waipara may have the one of the best mixes of soils and climate for Pn. My only problem here is inconsistency. Even the best producers have a fair amount of vintage variability. I’m there every March/April and as I’m watching the weather so intently on the South Island (I source fruit from Marlborough and Central Otago) I see storms hitting the Waipara that don’t hit Marlborough (it is rain-shadowed) or lots of Otago (as Howard points out - many areas are rain-shadowed there). This may hold Waipara back.
One minor beef: Central Otago is certainly a maritime-influenced growing region. Note how close to the sea it is. It is not continental. Only in NZ could one describe it as such (because for them, it’s about as continental as it gets there!). It gets warm, but not particularly hot there and the sea air filters in late evening to cool things off and retain that acidity we love. We are at near at the same distance from the ocean here in the Willamette Valley of Oregon and have similar temperature swings. We would certainly describe ourselves as having maritime-influenced weather! Another plug for Otago: it is a very consistent growing region (outside of Gibbston Valley which is dicy). Someone mentioned the lack of need for triage (fruit sorting) and that is remarkable.
Have I missed it or has no one mentioned how fast the techniques of Pn winemaking have changed for the better over the last decade? This may explain why older vintages are not favored. The first year I was in NZ (2007), I saw no one - no one - sorting and only one winery that did not must-pump their de-stemmed Pn. Now, if someone is must-pumping (a real no-no for us in Oregon) they are planning ways to discontinue it in the future. I saw few doing it last year. These basic winemaking changes may change our perceptions of aged NZ Pn. (That, and increased average vine age as someone mentioned.)
Hoping for a great 2014 harvest for all of us in NZ,
Sineann
Thanks all for the discussion. I have little to add to the conversation as the consistently good producers in NZ have all been discussed and sited. My own preferences lie with (in no special order) Ata Rangi, Felton Road and Rippon. Then I see Escarpment, Mount Difficulty and Martinboroguh Vineyard closely behind. As others have pointed out, Dry River is a producer which divided people and I’m still to be convinced but I can understand that the distinctiveness of their wines can be attractive.
I am about to post some barrel sample notes of 2013 Ata Rangi. I’ll put that in a separate thread but this could add to the current conversation about Martinboroguh, clones, vine age and terroir. And several of the contributors here were present at that tasting.
Scott, great you’re coming to NZ. Please feel free to PM me if you want some contacts or recommendations of vineyards, particularly in Martinborough.
Chris, interesting you refer to Pisa Range, as I had an award winning 2010 of theirs last night (my TN is on CT). Definitely dark fruited. Your coffee marker I had as liquorice and tar, overall well made but not sufficient complexity of flavour profile for me.
Peter, ok you’ve got me on a couple of points. Continental was an island NZer’s perspective (even with the mountains’ protection, it’s about 200 km in either direction to the sea) as was hot (Alexandria has the highest average NZ summertime temperatures, but rarely above 35 deg Celsius). Perhaps we can agree on Central having the least maritime influenced NZ sites, although I’m sure you’re right that nighttime sea breezes help with acidity. ![[basic-smile.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/83717c74df9b0ce202453063bc4f11baf0ee6b8a.gif "smile"){kind=small}
I certainly agree with your main points about the great potential of hillside Marlborough PN and the recent improvements in NZ PN making conclusions based on tasting 1990s/early 2000s era examples a little unfair.
BTW, when are you out in NZ, it can’t be far away?
Best, Howard
Howard,
I’ll arrive next week. First off the 2013 Pn gets bottled, then SB harvest in the Wairau, then Pn harvest in Otago, then back to the Awatere for SB harvest there. Came up to Welly last year as the Symphony was playing a good piece (and sounded great playing it!). No plans this year as I see no scintillating program (and the Hurricanes are barely worth watching…).
If you make it easy for me, I’ll send you some of my 2013 Pn. (Note to America: alter your laws to make shipping wine in the US as easy as it is in NZ!)
Sineann
Peter,
I thought it must be close, FR was bottling last week and I have a friend helping with the harvest this week. Thanks, I would be very keen to try your wines, shipping laws permitting, I will PM you.
Howard
Despite lots of negative views of Dry River here, the wines age much better than other NZ producers I have experienced with. Both 98’ and 99’ Dry River PN were still delicious 2 years ago and I do still keep 2 bottles of each vintage somewhere. Two bottles of 99’ Dry River Chardonnay Amaranth opened last year were surprisingly good despite their age. Too bad I don’t have anymore left but I am certain that wine would last another 3 to 5 years with grace.
Peter,
You should go up to Wellington and have dinner with these guys after your harvest. If they are like Mike During(which they seem to be), they are fantastic hosts and fun people.
I am very happy to see that you seem to have some great things happening in NZ.
Chiu, Dry River wines are distinctive so do tend to divide people,
Don, yes, we’re hoping to catch up with Peter when he is out here, if he has time after harvest.
A knowledgeable Burgundy loving Wellington friend, not on WBs, sent me an email I thought I’d post here. The email raises some issues not in the posts to date:
I have read the thread with great interest. Pretty much agree with peoples comments re PN producers, although I would shift a few around in the top five but that’s being picky.
While I like Mike Weersing at PV I wouldn’t have him in my top five. Too inconsistent from year to year and I just don’t get some of his wines. Unsure if this is stylistic or if the winemaking is too lax re hygiene issues?
For me, based on a huge sample range of 2-3 bottles, Bell Hill is the best of the Waipara lot and definitely in my top 3 from NZ and for me the most Burgundian but I’ll come back to that. Finally got on their mailing list but their production is so small that its just 1-2 bottle allocation so far, but I will try and remember to try them with the group.
I’m also not a Rippon fan but this is simply lack of exposure to their wines. As you know Nick Mills is doing a winemaker tasting for us in November 2015 so that should be interesting.
I agree with those on the thread who mention that NZ PN’s have improved out of sight in recent years. As a generalism, NZ’s Achilles heel is that we can achieve sugar ripeness too early in the growing season but never at the same time as phenolic ripeness. To get the latter you need to leave the fruit to hang and then alcohols go through the roof and the fruit also gets over ripe. Vineyard and winemaking practices have seen a massive increase in reversing these trends as has the use of clones that ripen later.
As you know I am a Burgundyphile but (gulp) I have started buying some NZ PN’s. While I agree that we should see Burgundies as separate creatures when compared to NZ PN"s they should have some similar basics in that there should be a balance and harmony in terms of fruit ripeness and extraction along with judicious use of oak and with moderate alcohols. True PN’s should be in the red fruit spectrum although some dark fruit is OK.
As for ageing I think the contributors to this thread are spot on in that the jury is still out. There are issues with vine age and soil age, ie. NZ soils are geologically very young when compared to those from Burgundy and hence are too nutritious so you get overt fruit driven characters, something which personally does not appeal.
I also am unsure on screwcaps and i wonder if this just freezes the wine in time so that while they can age the Holy Grail of an increase in complexity doesn’t happen.
I am of course, happy to be proven wrong. The day I stop tasting because I think I know it all will never happen.