The super-thin oversize stemware hasn’t been around all that long. I guess nobody had thrilling wine experiences before the 2000s (I must have just been imagining how good the 1980 DRCs were). And dang, maybe that’s why Burgundy has gotten so expensive, folks can actually taste it now.
No, I would not give up my modern glasses. However, “throwback” is part of the Chez Panisse DNA, not cutting-edge execution. Now that you mention it, I am really not so surprised that the glasses look like they came from the 1980s.
Spot on. It’s easy to forget that they pioneered that particular type of cooking, a style that’s everywhere now. Like, would anyone be wowed by a specialty pizza at Spago today?
I agree, especially in smaller glasses. @Nick_Christie had dinner with me and my wife at a very nice neighborhood spot, which served all their in small thick universal stems; it was fine for the champagne and sauternes but the 01 Anne Gros richebourg didn’t show well in the tiny glass. I think big wines with big aromatics do better in larger glasses. I’m not sure the thickness per se is that big a deal, but who knows; I’ve had lots of good wine from those generic large Libbey glasses.
I’m not sure how anyone can dispute that a bowl that is both large enough and shaped such that swirling the wine is possible/easy is remotely debatable.
To me, this is not a distinction to draw; wine is part of a meal and Chez Panisse serves wine.
I’ve been to Chez Panisse many times, having lived in Berkeley, and I’d say it’s a throwback destination as much as anything else. Its ambitions haven’t changed too much from when it opened, but the world has.
I don’t remember what year it was…had to be at least a decade ago. My wife and I ate at the cafe upstairs. On the way back to the hotel in SF, my wife had to ask the cab to stop so she could get out and vomit. It was a such a bad meal that I remember it to this day.
Everything about the place felt like it was in a time capsule.
Did you see the picture of the stem in the OP? It’s a pretty large bowl and perfectly capable of swirls. It resembles a Riedel Bordeaux glass more than it does any wine glass in use for all the centuries of wine drinking prior to Riedel. Riedel made those glasses look clunky and then Zalto made Riedel look clunky. So the arms race continues until someone makes a glass as light as helium. At the end of the day this is a perfectly normal wine glass, it is just not the slickest and most modern look available. So what. That is not going to shave 25% off the quality of your DRC. Here’s a pic from Steen’s site of the glass you’d be served DRC in at DRC. If you’re ever lucky enough to score a visit, don’t ask to see the manager!!
Hi Matthew, I understand this feeling very well and have similar experiences. I hate it when a fine dining restaurant has poor quality glassware. It definitely detracts from my enjoyment of the wine.
Enjoyment of wine is sensory experience and we all experience wine differently and I have found that different glasses definitely impact how I enjoy and appreciate wine - specifically the bouquet. And given that most of our sense of taste comes from our sense of smell, it makes sense to me to use a wine glass that enhances the aromas and bouquet of the wine.
It is simply not possible for any of us to judge other people’s palates and their sensory organs and declare that someone else’s experience is not valid.
Personally, I care more about the silverware than the glass. I want the duck breast I’m eating to be enhanced by the silveryness of the fork and if the tines are dull and thick, it destroys the flavor of the duck. But if I’m having wild boar ragu, which I had the other night, a heavier fork with thicker tines brings out the gaminess of it. And since I eat more food than I drink wine, I feel it’s important to have a serious collection of forks and spoons and knives. I often bring my own to high-end restaurants.
I don’t know that anyone said his experience was “not valid.” At most, I think others, including myself, have just tried to provide perspective on his experience that might frame it, or not.
I can clear that up. Yes, I was absolutely saying that his claim that the glass degraded the wine by 25% was not valid, and if his subjective experience was to the contrary it’s because he let his mind believe that, not because the glass actually had that effect. Millions of people throughout history have been psychologically manipulated into giving up their lives for the most foolish of causes, don’t tell me it’s impossible to get psychologically manipulated by Reidel or Zalto marketing myths.
Fair enough, I am just confused as it is difficult to reconcile your position on this matter with your willingness to put you name to this Glasvin glass? So was this is marketing scam or did they use your name without your permission?
I love my Glasvin! You can read every single post I ever made about why I designed that glass and I guarantee you will not find one containing any bullshit claims that it will make your wine taste better by directing wine to a particular part of your tongue or following the angles of any astrological charts. (To save you time, the glass was designed to revive a classic shape, fit comfortably in the dishwasher and on crowded dinner tables, and to follow the angles of Pippa Middleton’s bum.)
The rest of the story: Back in the late '60’s-early '70’s, there was a restaurant on SanPablo nearing Berkeley by the name of PotLuck. Run by Hank Rubin. He did one meal every Sat night, w/ the emphasis on fresh/locally-sourced ingredients. The meals were phenomenal and attended (if you could get in) by local foodies. The wines were y the Calif wines of the day.
AliceWaters was a frequent attendee. She took Hank’s idea & ran with it, created Chez Panisse, and went on to fame & fortune. Mark Miller & David Tanis were two of the early chefs there.
Hank never gets the credit he deserves for being the founder of Calif Cusine. Hank, in the late '30’s, served in the Lincoln Brigade from the US, in Spain, attempting to fight the spread of fasciaism under Franco. For his service on the Lincoln Brigade, he was branded branded by the McCharthies, as a "Communist ". He wrote a book describing those yrs, which is a great read.
.
