Chassagne Montrachet Rouge

Please close this thread. There has to be one last bastion of great value and quality Pinot Noir in Burgundy.

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Zachys of all places has 19 Ramonet Clos de La boudriotte rouge for 115 which isn’t bad.


Doesnt sound that good. I paid $55 for '18.

19 is way more expensive.

I bought a lot of earlier vintages for well below 100 but the best price I found for the 19 was around 100 in Europe/Asia.

There’s a place in Illinois that has it for 95, but doesn’t ship to me.

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I coincidentally bought half a case of 2019 Thomas Morey Clos Saint-Jean Rouge.

Anyone that has any experience with his wines? Curious to hear thoughts and what to expect.


I love the reds. Same with his dad’s.

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I haven’t had his reds but his whites are in my favorites lists every vintage.


I love Paul Pillot reds. Never had a bottle I didn’t like. Had one bottle of Ramonet Boudriotte rouge 2016 that wasn’t great. An off bottle?

Paul Pillot reds are wonderful but very assertive. Much different style. The 2016 you had VladB should have been pretty great. I am surprised.

I have never tried any reds by Paul Pillot (although I bought a bottle this year), but from the way you describe it, I am not surprised that someone who really likes an “assertive” wine would not be as fond of a more seductive red like those made by Ramonet.

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Not sure I’d go so far as “assertive”!

Thierry does all his Clos Saint-Jean with “dressage”, so no hedging of the canopies, and ferments with some whole bunch. Recent vintages have been very suave, perfumed wines with excellent precision and balance. They just replanted some Clos Saint-Jean that had been in white with red, so they are quite committed to the genre.

I suspect that the bottle was a bit off. I’ve had Ramonet reds many times and do like them a lot. 2012, 2014 and 2015 CM reds drank beautifully in the past year.

This is an excellent description of the Pillot reds!

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Those Domaine Paul Pillot vines in Clos St Jean are said to be very old. I love the wines. They are more like Moreau Cardeuses to me than Ramonet however. Maybe that brought up the adjective assertive. I adore the whole bunch use. Thanks for the nice note William.


I was inspired by this thread so I tracked down some Ramonet Rouge and popped the cork today. Just a Village level, but the wine was stunning. Very light in color, almost rose like. Nose was a little oak dominant to start but that integrated with air and gave way to holiday spice and a cool mineral breeze. The palate was a parade of pretty red fruit, with sexy oak that needs to integrate just a bit more, and tannin to go the distance. Such a beautiful village wine that has a lot left in the tank. Definitely gonna step up to the CSJ or Boudriotte next.


Really like the Ramonet reds. I’ve only had a Pillot reds a few times but always found the reduction a bit much. May have to give them another try.

Any thoughts on the Lamy Goujonne? Been meaning to try it at some point.

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Clearly, there is a big difference in style between the reds of Ramonet and that of Moreau. I love the wines from both of them, but I could easily see someone liking one more than the other. In my cellar, I have a few more bottles of Ramonet red Chassagne than of Moreau red Chassagne (I do have a bottle of Volnay Clos du Chenes from Moreau), but I think that is largely because I started buying Ramonet first.

Had my first Moreau Cardeuse tonight, a very lovely, elegant, and aromatic 2017 that didn’t have nearly the density of the handful of red Pillot Chassagne I’ve had. This had a bit more of a tannic line than the Ramonet reds, but the balance fruit and elegance reminded me of them. I’m guessing it’s some function of the vintage character, and wondering if the '18s and '19s would swing the other way.

BTW this was a ridiculous deal at Envoyer, just 50 bucks a bottle, but I only received a fraction of what I requested.

My note on a 2018 Goujonne I popped to take a look at earlier in the year:

What I love about this wine, like most Chassagne reds I’ve encountered, is its elegance; yes, it’s still 2018 and thus is round and fleshy, but it’s supremely refined. Profound floral character, a touch of spice, and deep dark red fruits all come together wonderfully. Beautiful animating acidity, and an already-silky texture with just enough grippy, powdery tannin.

Thanks - sounds great. Grabbed one of his st aubin rouges also. Not chassagne but will give it a try and report back.