This is just getting stupid. It used to take years for an up and coming producer to develop a following and then go cult; now they’re speedrunning the process and it takes six months. I am not ITB but like to think I pay reasonably close attention but there are producers that I haven’t even heard of now becoming unobtainable. I find it difficult to believe they are all that special.
This may be somewhat controversial but I don’t think Champagne is as terroir-limited as other regions like Burgundy and great wines can be made in a lot of places. Not saying terroir doesn’t matter but since Champagne as a style is more of a “made” wine than still you see more examples of special wines made in unheralded places (see Cedric Bouchard). There is a lot of land in Champagne and so with investment flowing into the region it suggests we will be seeing more nice stuff all the time.
I don’t think what you write is controversial, the terroir argument is being over leveraged to make, at best, good champagnes sound interesting. From a geeky point of view it is interesting to taste but I find and I have the feeling customers are finding the same, the need to rebuy after tasting is limited.
I think the backlash is already here. Increasing prices in the current situation seems so out of touch with what is happening. I think a lot of producers are speculating, the US and asian markets are prepared to pay more than what we europeans are prepared to pay. Will this work out long term.
In Italy the prices have always been high, now every week champagne is being discounted by 30%, not what grower producers want to see, I think this is going to become the new trend, discounted champagne.
You have a great situation there. I won’t say online but I am wondering if it is the retailer that sold me 2012s and 2013s at a nice price. It was a great resource for me until word started really getting out about Suenen and supplies got tighter.
No controversial in my view - in fact you are quite right. I enjoy “grower champagnes” and the particularities of singe vintage/vineyard bottlings- but I have never had one that can come even close to a wine like MV Krug or Dom Perignon in terms of complexity. Granted that is one of many factors, but it is still an important one.
As I said in another thread not long ago, there is a reason Chef de Cave at a major champagne house is one of the best compensated and most prestigious posts in the wine world. Blending across vintages and vineyards opens a whole new realm of possibilities, and as we have all seen- when it is done masterfully, the result is as good as it gets.
Oy vey. If that’s the price I see out here, then I’m out. $90 is doable. $100 makes me think long and hard (and I probably pull the trigger), but $135 is an easy pass.
And to think I had this wine for the first time a mere 3 mos. ago … at least I got a taste …
Tonight I opened my second bottle of 2016 Vincey Grand Cru Oger. The first had a flat/oxidized finish, which I did not like. So with some trepidation, I brought a bottle to drink with my Champagne fiend 91 year-old father tonight with fresh grilled Dover Sole.
This bottle was fresh, energetic, delicious and reminded me on tasting of Collin Pierrieres. So I guess I’m a Collin type of consumer. But this bottle cost $75… Worth that and more.
So mad at myself for cracking too early on the 2012 taittinger comtes. Price now down at £710/6 IB in the UK. Amazing how quickly that release bubble burst.
As some who sells I tend to categorise customers into genres. Vincey are really going from strength to strength, the 18 are at a different level, to the 16s and 17s. Chemins de Chalons especially. But now the new releases from Oudiette are out, more limited than Vincey but also at that level. Aurora Casanova and La Rogerie are coming in September/October, the choice for those frustrated by the lack of Ulysse Collin and also in the meantime Georges Remy have now at least more choices.
Also Bourgeous-Diaz, as these are Bedel’s nieghbours, I thought I would not like the more modern style, but i was wrong, this is a totally different expression of Meunier but just fantastic. I can say this now they are sold out, much better than Mousse et Fils.
In the middle of the pandemic, before vaccines were available, I bought a 9L Laurent Perrier La Cuvée for well under $600. At the time, few were buying large format; there were no large gatherings possible in the foreseeable future.
Absolute madness from the heidsiecks today. 13 rare out at £445/3 IB in London when you can still easily pick up the 08 for over 20% less. Unsurprisingly, as with the krug 171 recently, it’s already being offered at well below that “release price”. Ditto the 2013 charles heidsieck brut millesime at £490/6 IB with the 12 still around at over 25% less.
We tasted it on Monday, it’s while it’s definitely not great and “bad” for a CdC, it’s not a bad wine in absolute terms. I would never buy it, though. Not worth half the price.
It tasted like a middle-of-the-road grower BdB to me and there was a vegetal edge. I’m taking Alan’s advice, which was to hold my remaining 2 for 10 more years to see if anything interesting happens
As the market has gotten pretty excited about Champagne, I’ve been looking for some new producers to try. In case people here think that WB doesn’t influence people, that is certainly not true in my case. In the last 9 months, I’ve bought one or two bottles from Doyard, Suenen, Lancelot-Pienne, Hure Freres, Dehours, Pehu-Simonet, Seleque, and Ruppert-Leroy.
Five years ago I was buying mostly names like Taittinger, Vilmart, Agrapart, Chartogne-Taillet, Cedric Bouchard, Philipponnat, Laherte Freres. I still buy some of those, but … well you all know the story. So thanks for all the discussion and great ideas! After I open a bunch of these I’ll report back.
If that’s the price I see out here, then I’m out. $90 is doable. $100 makes me think long and hard (and I probably pull the trigger), but $135 is an easy pass.