That’s funny, it’s never been mentioned before…
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A producer we used to work with sold Grand Cru grapes to Moet et Chandon/Dom Perignon. Seven years ago they got about 6-7€ the kilo. Apparently Dom Perignon need about 1,6kg of grapes for one bottle.
This week we heard from a very good source, Moet/Dom Perignon are paying 12 € the kg.
Especially for the lesser known grower producers, very little motivation to make their own champagne. Not sure how this ties into land prices but my source said, some producers have become millionaires over night on paper due to the price.
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Doubling over 7 years is 10% cagr…
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Hi Donald, was scrolling thru the thread and saw this. What % prices increases have you see for Egly wines over the last year ? What is the current going rate for the Grand Cru Rose Brut? I am trying to get a feeling for what to expect when the next allocation shows up here in NZ
I love Egly so this comment does have me a bit worried!
TIA
Brodie
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In the past, Egly always increased its prices by roughly 5% at the start of the new year. As Egly is a big financial commitment for us, we try to sell it quickly to free up cash.
Egly always releases its champagne in September after the harvest. Using my prices straight after its release, if allowed, we sell out quickly.
In 2021, our prices were as follows:
- Brut Grand Cru 59.95 €
- VP 81.95 €
- Rosé 81.95 €
Using the same calculation based on the winery’s pricing, our prices in 2022 were:
- Brut Tradition 76.95 €
- VP 99,90 €
- Rosé 99,90 €
The VP and the Rosé ideally should have been at 110€, but we wanted to keep it under 100 €
The most interesting price jump was for the Blanc de Noirs:
- In 2021: 149.95 €
- In 2022: 229.95 €
For Millésime 2012, we sold it at 155.95 €, while for Millésime 2013, we sold it at 450 €. Other sellers listed it at 600 €, but we could have sold it for 360 €.
In 2022, we only received a third of our normal allocation, and we were told we could ask again in January. The big problem for us was the dégorgement dates. Normally, the champagne is dégorged a few months before its release, but it seems that after receiving 100 points from WA, Egly couldn’t keep up with demand. The bottles we received in September were dégorged in August, after the 100 point score.
Interestingly, our older customers who had been buying Egly from the beginning did not buy as much last year. The most requested champagne in the past was the Brut Grand Tradition, but last year it was less popular. The Premice was the most requested, although I think this is Egly’s weakest champagne, alongside the new chardonnay from Bisseuil.
For me, the Millésime is not Egly’s strongest champagne. Rather, the Blanc de Noirs… We have had it in a number of tastings alongside NV Krug and, in terms of substance, it could hold its own.
,
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I’d concur with all your points except one: Brut tradition (before and after relabeling) has been a repeated disappointment for me, especially in comparison to its lesser brethren. I found them a bit too young and greenish, whereas les premises appeared a more generous and rich(albeit generic) wine. VP is pretty good, as is the rose. But oh, that BdN les crayeres is on another level and is simply irreplaceable. Such a shame that the price has gone up so much recently but it’s not a surprise considering how good the 2020 and 2021 degs are drinking right now, is it? I’d venture to say that the most recently released Tete de Cuvees don’t even come close. Krug gc 170? Dom 2013? Maybe in 10 years, but now it’s no comparison imo.
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I concur. The pricing on the Millesime is hard to swallow, no pun intended. I discovered the Crayeres BdN years ago when you could still find it for US $90, and I watched the price skyrocket. I can’t really justify buying it at these prices as much as I love it. I still have a couple of bottles left from the first (comparatively modest) price increase I noticed.
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Krug MV has jumped $100 / bottle retail here. Now in the $400s AUD
When the first Premices came out we sold for 37 € and now we are at 60 €. For me it is not a 60€ champagne.
I think with the Grand Cru Brut Tradition there has been a shift in the way it is being made now, making it more approachable. In the past, the big grower bonus was the lower price, but with changes in pricing, this no longer holds true. The cost of the Egly Blanc de Noirs is equivalent to that of a NV Krug or a Cristal, which raises questions about its comparative aging potential in 10, 15, or 20 years. While it may not be the best option for long-term aging, Ifeel it is too expensive for short-term or medium term consumption and prefer to purchase a Krug or Cristal instead. There are now other options available, which are not necessarily as good as Egly, but are more reasonably priced for short-term drinking, such as the new Pierre Paillard’s.
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2013 heidsieck released today at £490/6 ib vs £348 for the 12…. No. Just no.
I haven’t looked deeply into this thread yet, as I would love to see what the theories and/or explanations are for this college tuition-like increase on Champagne, but on this comment above, that’s a slippery slope, I think. The market moves a product from ‘affordable luxury’ to ‘luxury’, then discounts it later. I can see it happening, as well, as the prices now are going to continue to be a barrier for MANY (and we’re not talking about Grand Cru Burgundy here - we’re talking about across-the-board millions of bottles of bubbles purchased by wine geeks and not geeks alike, it’s a big market!) but to jump then discount destroys the perceived luxury placement they (apparently) are trying to create here alongside the ridiculous increases. Luxury products should not be discounted across the board if they are to remain ‘luxury’ classification.
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yeah, don’t bring THAT up again!! lol
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So I get your argument if it was, for example, Louis Vuitton and LV stores. But with Cristal, that goes to merchants, and then the merchants need to sell it on. Merchants cant sit on invested capital for ever - Cristal’s not cheap, and if its not shifting, its a lot of capital tied up that could be redeployed into other wines.
Also on the secondary market - wines falling with respect to their secondary price, rather than release price. The champagne producers have no/limited control over how the secondary market moves
As an example, 08 Cristal has dropped a bit from its all time high recently
In my mind its no different to how first growths in Bordeaux will drop in price if released too high - Lafite 2010 is only just about the same price as it was en primeur, finally, after all these years, and I still get offer after offer of discounted wine at the moment. Have a look at Farr - https://www.farrvintners.com/discounted_wines.php - 2005 Yquem 25% off, 2015 Rauzan Segla 10% off, 2009 Yquem 30% off… the last BBX email which includeds 2008 Pierre Peters Cuvee Special Les Chetillons (not familiar with it myself), Giraud MV16, 08 Louis Roederer, 08 DP, Krug 164 was at an average of 10-15% off - and those are spot offers to buy which haven’t been taken
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I don’t see any Krug 164. Personally I think top champagne is still underpriced, although prices are starting to catch up a bit. I think perhaps vintages like Cristal 2014 that were priced at $100 more on release than 2008 will be harder to sell, and the lack of good vintages between 2013 and 2018 may hurt, but generally I think Champagne is priced below its quality at current market prices. The increased primary and secondary market prices of some growers may also be driving grand marques to increase prices.
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If that was at me, Krug 03 on the Farr list, Krug 164 was on the BBX email sent round.
RE pricing - you have to remember, it was less than 3 years ago Cristal was releasing at like £700/6 - my first offers for 2008 were less than that I think - sure, capitalism moves it to £1500/6 now, but capitalism can also push it back down to £1200/6. That’s what i’m trying to get at- I sold some 08 Cristal at the peak of Champagne market and now I think I got, net, is higher than the current market price (may be wrong, though) - or at least at about.
And that wasnt auction, etc, that was to BI Wines.
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That “discounted” price for the 2003 Krug is nearly twice the US market price.
2008 cristal in the US is as expensive as I’ve ever seen it. You can’t even buy 08 Cristal rose, at least not easily. Pretty much the same is true for Dom. Unless you think the houses are sitting on vast amounts of unreleased 08s (which I doubt, because they’ve released multiple vintages since then) I can’t see the prices decreasing.
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tbh, my point is less about the specific wine but more the general escalation of prices in champagne for release pricing going forwards. I think with potentially falling demand, these comparatively high volume wines will end up being sat on merchants books and they may have to discount to clear some of them out in due course. Like, looking at release prices of 11 Taittinger Comtes, for example, its high for an ‘off’ viuntage - and there’s still a lot of availability. Even the much heralded 2012 Comtes is only barely above its release price now on the sceondary market
Yeah I do think it will be hard to charge high prices for mediocre vintages; case in point, as you said, 11 comtes and 14 cristal. The thing with 12 is that it’s a pretty big vintage, so we’ll see how it goes.
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I think the ‘top level’ point I’m trying to make is that champagne went on a ridiculous bull run over the last few years. It’s perfectly reasonable for producers to want to get as much of that in their pocket as possible, but at the same time we’re already seeing the first signs of that coming down a bit. And the producers should (will is a different question) have to price to reflect that cooling of the champagne market. 08 Comtes rose - barely above release price. 12 Comtes - barely above release price. Cristal I think, 12/13 (which I’ve bought and sold) didn’t release too expensive compared to 08 for example but I think prices, as a whole, will fall a bit
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