Thanks Joe, but this basement cooled room nor the adjacent room separated by insulated glass, will have any exterior windows, so I wonder if Solarban or Low E glass will make any difference. Seems if the glass panel airspace were 1" instead of 1/2", the R-value should increase but I have not found a clear explanation yet.
I see, I don’t have any specs in front of me this morning but a 1" insulated unit should be more than satisfactory if filled with argon. Low-e will not help as it’s a solar control product. If your really concerned than as John stated above you can always go with a triple glazed unit which would give you a crazy u-value but is probably overkill.
Leslie:
You could place the bottles neck to neck and that will eliminate the necks sticking out more than you want.
SALUDos,
José
Regarding the floor, I built a cellar for a friend in Long Island. The basement of the house is on a concrete slab but the area where the cellar was built is nearby the car garage and I decided to raise the floor of the cellar to decouple the floor (Concrete slab) from the cellar. We got some pressure treated 2" by 4" studs and built a frame on the cellar floor with 16" between studs. After securing the frame to the slab two inch thick foam was placed between studs. Pressure treated plywood was screwed to the studs and on top of that hardibacker board was screwed before the Italian porcelain tiles were placed.
We also used the two inch foam panels for the side walls and the temperature on the seven feet wide by nine feet long and almost eight feet tall cellar has been stable to a degree F (53.5-54.5). The cooling unit used is just a cheapie Kool R from Vintagekeeper.
SALUDos,
José
John, what about eliminating the hardi, and instead use an adhesive to secure the high compression foam to the slab, then ‘wet setting’ the tiles on top (buttered tiles on top of a mortar bed)?
The tiles will be 3/4" thick large granite pieces.
Regarding R-value, Wiki says this: A standard IGU consisting of clear uncoated panes of glass (or lites) with air in the cavity between the lites has an R-value of 2, or 0.35 K·m2/W (2 h·ft2·°F/BTU).
Using imperial units, a rule of thumb in standard IGU construction is that each change in the component of the IGU results in an increase of 1 R-value to the efficiency of the unit. Adding Argon gas increases the efficiency to about R-3. Using low emissivity glass on surface #2 will add another R-value. Properly designed triple glazed IGUs with low emissivity coatings on surfaces #2 and #4 and filled with argon gas in the cavities result in IG units with R-values as high as R-5. Certain vacuum insulated glass units (VIG) or multi-chambered IG units using coated plastic films result in R-values as high as R-12.5.
Bud
[quote=“Bud Insalata]John, what about eliminating the hardi, and instead use an adhesive to secure the high compression foam to the slab, then ‘wet setting’ the tiles on top (buttered tiles on top of a mortar bed)?
The tiles will be 3/4” thick large granite pieces.
Regarding R-value, Wiki says this: A standard IGU consisting of clear uncoated panes of glass (or lites) with air in the cavity between the lites has an R-value of 2, or 0.35 K·m2/W (2 h·ft2·°F/BTU).
Using imperial units, a rule of thumb in standard IGU construction is that each change in the component of the IGU results in an increase of 1 R-value to the efficiency of the unit. Adding Argon gas increases the efficiency to about R-3. Using low emissivity glass on surface #2 will add another R-value. Properly designed triple glazed IGUs with low emissivity coatings on surfaces #2 and #4 and filled with argon gas in the cavities result in IG units with R-values as high as R-5. Certain vacuum insulated glass units (VIG) or multi-chambered IG units using coated plastic films result in R-values as high as R-12.5.
Bud[/quote]
That’s why I asked you about the R value you were planning to achieve. IIRC Krypton is better insulating than argon, though vacuum is best. All of that will get very expensive, especially over an entire wall. Plus, aside from vacuum you are going to end up with an R of only 5 max. Personally, considering expense, r-value, and the fact that the interior of the cellar will be filled with racking, I wonder if solid walls with some pre-manufactured windows at various portions isn’t more sensible. Just use one-light, inoperable, tall units. Pella makes some argon dual-glazed that approach R-5, or there are operations like Serious Windows that reach R-9.
As far as the floor, I think your dancing around the reason that slab insulation IS installed below the slab. I do not think you can wet-set with mortar onto foam, though I am just giving an educated guess. You would have better luck with some sort of super adhesive. It still sounds odd. If you are dead set on the foam over the slab, you would be best with some Pr.treated sleepers, then ply and set with adhesive on that. But again you get a height issue and the less than ideal setting of stone on ply in a moist environ.
Maybe best to hear why you are opposed to putting the foam under the slab?
John,
I do want full visibility into the cellar so I’m planning a lower set of stationary glass units (below a long counter top), and an upper set from counter top to ceiling/soffit.
I’ve suggested underslab insulation to the architect from day one, but his concern was heat migration from the footings
and portion of the adjoining floor in the adjacent room that would not be insulated. I also desired the wall insulation on the exterior
to save indoor inches, but I understand it may complicate the waterproofing, and that’s one I don’t want to compromise.
I agree with you that heat from the slab edges should not be a big deal. There’s still plenty of time.
Bud
If you have an architect and you inquire, I’d imagine he will work out some details.
I don’t know if you have some condition that prevents it, but thermal breaks can be installed between the slab and footings. Usually it would be a piece of foam board insulation standing up (vertically, faced onto the footing) extending from flush with the top of the slab and down to the insualion boards below the slab. It can be cut at an angle/bevel at the top angling downward and toward the room’s interior, so that the concrete can cover most of the top, even if thin. There CAN be issues with this. You have to asure that the foam does not transmit moisture. Also in earthquake territory the codes might prohibit a floating slab, and call for dowelling the slab’s rebar into the footing. So you would have to cut out the foam around the rebar (leaving some gaps) and maybe to allow for a couple of inches of concrete around the bars. Inside the space, where you will have a partition dividing the cellar from the other space, you would look to put the same line of foam to be covered by the partition.
Leslie, how deep are your racks? Except for one 10 column rack, all of mine are DD - 23 1/4 inches.
Not having a problem except for Riesling and Gewurtz, and then yes, I do the neck to neck thing.