Can you guys please stop embarrassing me? (Corkage)

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Keith Levenberg

@Mike Heyse

I don’t feel entitled to corkage

Me neither. As far as I’m concerned restaurants should either allow it or not allow it, but they shouldn’t allow it and then be dicks about it.

[Frank_Drew]

IMO, and to be a bit of a contrarian, it’s not just about lousy wine selections or high prices: many of us have so many bottles that the only way we can draw down our stock is to BYOB every chance we get. (There is a certain self-dealing aspect to the argument that what we want is really for the benefit of the other guy (the restaurant owner.)

[Loren_Sonkin]

There are very few BYO places here (not technically legal) and almost all restaurants charge at least 4 times wholesale and some much more. My solution is to not go out as often, frequent those places who allow BYO, or drink beer or water. I would glad pay a fair corkage fee but I would prefer to pay a fair markup on a bottle of wine. I have always thought two time wholesale was fair. At that price, its about 25% above retail (is my math right?) and I am glad to pay that. That way I can try some interesting wines that I would consider buying more of. For example, if a bottle wholesales for $25 to$50, charge $50 to $100. It would retail in Ohio for $38 to $75. That would certainly be a sweet spot for many people and would increase both wine sales and food sales IMO.

[Berry_Crawford]

@Robert Alfert

Anyone else amused by the caricature? I laughed, thinking about a few of my buddies (not me, of course!).

Yeah, that hit a little to close to home

[Larry_P]

@Berry Crawford

@Robert Alfert

Anyone else amused by the caricature? I laughed, thinking about a few of my buddies (not me, of course!).

Yeah, that hit a little to close to home

Especially the part about drinking syrah at a sushi bar

[Larry_P]

@markye

Quoting the article:

While some consumers believe that it’s part of the “Diner’s Bill of Rights,” dozens of sommeliers and restaurateurs would counter that by asking: “Would you bring your own meat to a restaurant and ask the chef to cook it?”

Really? What Sommelier or restauranteur asks this question?

Mario Batali tweets on corkage...

[Jay_Miller]

@Keith Levenberg

@Mike Heyse

I don’t feel entitled to corkage

Me neither. As far as I’m concerned restaurants should either allow it or not allow it, but they shouldn’t allow it and then be dicks about it.

Bingo.

[Ramon_C]

@K_F_o_l_e_y

Article about corkage across the US (LA, NYC, Philly, Chicago, Texas) on Eater National:

Corkage Culture Across the US: Is Bringing Wine to a Restaurant a Right? - Eater

Amusingly, in comment #12:

… > Lots of single, overweight or morbidly skinny, greasy-haired, wispy beared, four-eyed males, and not of the gay persuasion. Living In Mom’s Basement material. … They’re usually demanding as hell, loud > and mostly crappy tippers to boot.

Can you guys please gain/loose some weight, and start behaving?

This is funny. Once was invited to a tasting group that seemed to have every single one that’s described above.

[ToddFrench]

@K_F_o_l_e_y

Article about corkage across the US (LA, NYC, Philly, Chicago, Texas) on Eater National:

Corkage Culture Across the US: Is Bringing Wine to a Restaurant a Right? - Eater

Amusingly, in comment #12:

99% of the time it’s about some cheapskate trying to save money. Have you ever seen most BYOB people? Lots of single, overweight or morbidly skinny, greasy-haired, wispy beared, four-eyed males, and not of the gay persuasion. Living In Mom’s Basement material. Check out the internet wine chat boards to get an idea of what these guys are about - they talk up this subject all the time, almost always with a serious sense of entitlement. You might even be able to see some photos of them at their “off lines”, as they call dinners where they get together at some restaurant and bust out their wines after haggling some deal for corkage. They’ll go to a sushi place to drink Syrah and Port if they can do it for free. Draw your own conclusion. Lots of them even haul in their own glasses and decanters. Seriously. They’re almost uniformly a horrifying, NAMBLA-esque bunch. No successful restaurant wants that geeky wine freak show coming in, believe me. They’re usually demanding as hell, loud and mostly crappy tippers to boot.

Can you guys please gain/loose some weight, and start behaving?

What an ass. Invite this idiot to BerserkerFest NYC to see all the hotness in the room!!

[Dav_d_Parta_n]

Restaurants reserve the right to charge whatever they wish for wine and I reserve the right to eat at home. Outrageous wine markups are the number one reason I do not dine out more often.

[Bruce_Leiser_owitz]

Here’s a funny quote: “And beyond the thrift-seeking lovers of supermarket-purchased KJ, I see a lot of people take a racist attitude toward our all-southern-Italian list. More than once, guests have told me that they simply ‘Don’t drink southern Italian wine.’”

Um, perhaps this sommelier needs to look up the definition of “racist.”

Bruce

[Bruce_Leiser_owitz]

@D@v!d P@rt@!n

Restaurants reserve the right to charge whatever they wish for wine and I reserve the right to eat at home. Outrageous wine markups are the number one reason I do not dine out more often.

In that sense, it’s really the same issue when it comes to the pricing of the food menu. A restaurant reserves the right to charge someone $75 for an average steak, and I reserve the right not to eat there. BUT, if the food is appropriately priced for the perceived value and quality, then it should meet the needs of both the restaurant and the diner. The wine list really is no different, although the perceptions can be drastically altered by the diner’s knowledge of wine and parallel retail pricing.

Bruce

[Rick_Gregory]

@Bruce Leiserowitz

@D@v!d P@rt@!n

Restaurants reserve the right to charge whatever they wish for wine and I reserve the right to eat at home. Outrageous wine markups are the number one reason I do not dine out more often.

In that sense, it’s really the same issue when it comes to the pricing of the food menu. A restaurant reserves the right to charge someone $75 for an average steak, and I reserve the right not to eat there. BUT, if the food is appropriately priced for the perceived value and quality, then it should meet the needs of both the restaurant and the diner. The wine list really is no different, although the perceptions can be drastically altered by the diner’s knowledge of wine and parallel retail pricing.

Bruce

That and the fact that the restaurant brings no added value to the wine. It’s also why I rarely go out to eat steak or other things that are easy for me to closely replicate. What I go out for are dishes that aren’t simple for me to do at home (presuming that I’m going out for the dining vs just meeting friends for a burger, etc).

I’ve no issue with pricing in the 2x wholesale range, but it’s insulting to try to charge $45 for a bottles that retails for $20 and wholesales for $13. I’ve done it, but I don’t really like it. At the end of the day all I really want is to feel I can find a range of good wines that match the food and are available in a variety of price categories. If I want to spend $40 on a bottle, enable me to do that and get a decent bottle. If I want to splurge, let me do that too. But don’t let your distributor stock plonk, charge 4x wholesale and then whine at me about how hard wine is.

[Kenny_H]

I only BYO with a ringer. The thing with fine dining is you can have recompense on the food if it is poorly prepared etc. But if you have to rely on their usually extremely limited or extremely priced wine list, you are on your own when it is a total dud(whether due to taste, condition, etc). That is a big leap of faith that I have a hard time flushing 300% markup on.

[Jane_Crabill]

I thought the description of the off liners was hilarious but it totally ignores the females in the group. I guess in this instance we must be the “1%.”

[Harris_Goldberg]

I agree with Loren here, and I believe that Randy earlier echoed this sentiment.

When on my trip to the Central Coast I had a nice dinner at Aubergine in Carmel. The food was great and for the first time ever I did a wine pairing which they chose the wines. The food was great, the wine was good but not exceptional, but it was fun. After tax, tip, etc it was over $500 for both of us, but it was an experience we enjoyed and will remember. I probably wouldnt do it again, I would get a glass as the wine was very pricey for what we got on the pairing. The next day we went to PassionFish. Now if more places had a wine program like they did, corkage would not be an issue. I gladly bought a half bottle of wine. If we did not have a 2.5hr drive immediately after, I’d have gone for a full bottle. Great wines reasonably priced.

I am planning a trip to Berns, and from what I can see they have a decent program too.

We went to Mortons this weekend, their prices were a bit crazy at times. From what I could see anywhere from 2-3x retail, maybe more on the lower end wines. I gladly paid $29 for my 2000 Seavey Cab, which I know they did not carry on their list.

I guess it’s an imperfect world…

@Loren Sonkin

There are very few BYO places here (not technically legal) and almost all restaurants charge at least 4 times wholesale and some much more. My solution is to not go out as often, frequent those places who allow BYO, or drink beer or water. I would glad pay a fair corkage fee but I would prefer to pay a fair markup on a bottle of wine. I have always thought two time wholesale was fair. At that price, its about 25% above retail (is my math right?) and I am glad to pay that. That way I can try some interesting wines that I would consider buying more of. For example, if a bottle wholesales for $25 to$50, charge $50 to $100. It would retail in Ohio for $38 to $75. That would certainly be a sweet spot for many people and would increase both wine sales and food sales IMO.

[Jim_Clary]

Unfortunately here in AZ, the industry has colluded to prevent BYOB at restaurants that serve alcohol, which sucks coming from Chicago where we BYOB religiously. However, if more restaurants took tips from our country clubs, they would sell a lot more wine. Both of our clubs sell wine at 10% over wholesale, and as a result sell far more wine than they ever expected. I can find bottles on the list cheaper than I pay on some mailing lists. I can also buy wine directly from them to take home at the same price, so it is a pretty sweet deal.

The poster child for me with obscene wine pricing is the Mastro’s chain. I like the food and atmosphere at their various restaurants, but absolutely hate looking at the wildly over-priced wine list. It takes a lot of the enjoyment out of the experience.

[Jeff_Lewis]

Recently dined at St Anselm in Brooklyn NY an outstanding casual steak house. They have one of the better wine lists I’ve seen in these parts and my rough guess was most of it was 25-50% markups of retail, at least the bottles I was interested in. I will go to this restaurant, recommend it, and certainly never bring wine to it, because they went to the trouble to put together an interesting list at a reasonable markup.

If you as a business person either have a boring list or price at 3-4X retail and you offer corkage at any reasonable price, I am going to BYOB.

Same circumstances as above and you don’t offer corkage, I am not coming to your restaurant.

So, the choice is up to the restaurants, and its a pretty simple one. St Anselm was probably at 100%+ markups vs. wholesale and they probably sell a lot more wine because of their policies and they have a line out the door every night. Case closed.

[Roberto_Rogness]

Re the “racist” bit, IN Italy there is a lot of what can at least be described as ethnic disdain re north vs south. A famous line heard in Padania (areas of the north with separatist dreams) is that “Garibaldi did not unite Italy, he divided Africa…”.

PS: that quote is from Jeremy Parzen / Do Bianchi who is about as serious a student of Italian language, history and culture as one finds in the US.

About

[Shannon_Perdue]

Amusingly, in comment #12:

99% of the time it’s about some cheapskate trying to save money. Have you ever seen most BYOB people? Lots of single, overweight or morbidly skinny, greasy-haired, wispy beared, four-eyed males, and not of the gay persuasion. Living In Mom’s Basement material. Check out the internet wine chat boards to get an idea of what these guys are about - they talk up this subject all the time, almost always with a serious sense of entitlement. You might even be able to see some photos of them at their “off lines”, as they call dinners where they get together at some restaurant and bust out their wines after haggling some deal for corkage. They’ll go to a sushi place to drink Syrah and Port if they can do it for free. Draw your own conclusion. Lots of them even haul in their own glasses and decanters. Seriously. They’re almost uniformly a horrifying, NAMBLA-esque bunch. No successful restaurant wants that geeky wine freak show coming in, believe me. They’re usually demanding as hell, loud and mostly crappy tippers to boot.

Somebody didn’t get invited to an “offline”.