No, they’re not. But they are probably in the 13s in most years (I don’t have any bottles handy to look at, only one is the empty 2008 Allemand I wrote about in another thread, which says 13.5%). Very, very few Cali syrahs are in the 13s. I know some of the Halcon wines are, A 2011 Rhys Skyline says 13.5%, Arnot-Roberts for sure, the Peay syrahs can be in the 13s, but get into the 14s in warmer years; a google search turns up a 98 Failla-Jordan Que Syrah label at 13.2% - a very cool vineyard in a very cool year. I’m looking at a bottle 97 Dehlinger Syrah at 14.5%, a 2011 says 14.8 (and that was a relatively cool RRV vintage). I will put money behind the statement that the overwhelming majority of California Syrahs are in the 14s and higher, maybe even averaging in the 15s.
And I agree that ripeness levels have crept up, even in N. Rhone. So really, not only are we unsure about the ageability of some of the California wines we’re talking about, but I think you can ask the same question about how some of today’s riper Rhone wines will age as well.
I hope I’ve been clear that I’m not dissing California Syrah. I buy quite a few, and there are plenty more I’m happy to drink any night of the week. I’m just focusing on Craig’s original question about how they will age in comparison to the “classic” northern Rhone wines, where there is bountiful experience to draw from.
I don’t expect Dehlinger to be the benchmark here. It has always been in the midrange of CA ripeness and alcohol. It’s going to be someone in a colder place. I have tasted colder climate Syrahs from CA (like some Copain and Arnot Roberts) but I haven’t found one that I really like.
Craig, the question is are there ANY syrah vineyards already planted that will ever produce truly Rhone-like wines? I’m not sure. Clary Ranch that Arnot Roberts uses is perhaps even too cool. Others (like Peay) I think have the chance to be there, but in a minority of vintages. Rhys is very enticing, and will be interesting to watch. The Cabot vineyard way up north is an interesting one.
I guess in theory some Oregon or Washington sites might be even better suited, but I don’t have enough experience with those wines to say anything useful at all.
I don’t actually want the wines to be the same as the Rhone. The question is if they will be as good and interesting and will they evolve positively with age. In my opinion there are such wines in CA Cab and they don’t taste like Bordeaux when they age.
Not a winery you hear about much - if at all but these were fantastic.
2003 Marilyn Remark Syrah Arroyo Loma Vineyard - USA, California, Central Coast, Monterey County (2/24/2015)
Not quite as good as the grenache but not far off. Really pungent on nose with coffee, bacon fat, briny fruit - really stunning on the nose. Palate not quite as exciting but no slouch either. Savory and meaty. This is good shit.
Heres a tasting note on same wine 10 years earlier -
2003 Marilyn Remark Syrah Arroyo Loma Vineyard - USA, California, Central Coast, Monterey County (10/30/2005)
tried at winery and loved it. tried again at home and was blown away by amount of upfront oak there was. will wait a few years to calm down.
The real winner was the Grenache though -
2003 Marilyn Remark Grenache Wild Horse Road Vineyard - USA, California, Central Coast, Monterey County (2/24/2015)
What a nice surprise this wine is - so very earthy with mature ripe fruit. This wine screams old world, blind you would never guess California. Really spectacular.
Parker gave it 86 and said drink by 2008. Boy was he wrong!
As much as I do not like to engage in “whose alcohol is lower” types of discussions, I thought I ought to lend a little bit of accuracy to your general impressions about the Peay Syrah alcohol levels just so people have a better sense of the climate out here. The last time we had a Syrah of alcohol over 14% was 2004, when both the Les Titans and La Bruma were 14.2%. For those of you who do not know, 2004 in our neck of the woods was a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde vintage weatherwise; Though early starting, the summer was exceedingly cool, right up until the midpoint of Pinot/Chardonnay harvest, and those wines reflect the cooler vintage with bright acidity, and have aged nicely. The Syrah hung through the warm weather and what we harvested reflected a (the) warm(est) vintage for our Syrah. It is interesting to note that the 01, 02 and 03 Syrahs were all 14.1%, which I attribute to the vines’ youthful exuberance more than warm vintages (01 was normal to warm, 02 was normal, 03 was warm). The 05, 06, and 07 Les Titans were 14.0% (at the threshold but not above – that’s a hard line, remember) and the La Brumas were 13.8, 13.9 and 13.7. The nine Syrahs we made 08 through 12 (no 10 Les Titans) were 13.5 to 12.4 in alcohol – five in the 12’s, four in the 13’s. And though they haven’t been released, the 13’s are 13.1 and 13.2. I attribute this general downward drift to vine maturity, precocious young things now getting into their groove as they age, though of course 10 and 11 were particularly cool years. I just don’t foresee us being able to get those alcohols over 14 again at our site…
As for the wines now versus their aging potential, I find that the less-flashy-in-their-youth cooler vintages have greater potential for developing lots of interesting nuances with age, and aging well for a long time. But we’ll see.
I didn’t actually realize until this discussion that the planting of Syrah was such a recent thing in the U.S. I see there may be some nearly 100 year old vines in McDowell Valley (Mendocino County). Are there other old (pre-1980s) Syrah vineyards?
Craig – I’m sure it was grown, but I’d guess a lot of it was in mixed vineyards, and sometimes it was confused with petite syrah, as I recall.
“We produced our first syrah in 1983, at the time there were very few plantings in California but I was intrigued by the French original grown in the northern Rhone Valley,” Adam Tolmach says on the Ojai website.
The first generation of Rhone Rangers – Randall Grahm, Tolmach, Steve Edmunds et al – only put Rhone grapes on the map in the mid-80s. They tracked down plantings, planted vines themselves in some cases and encouraged growers to plant it. It was only by the late 80s that there was a range of syrahs.
Other than Phelps, can anyone recall a wine labeled as syrah in California before, say, 1980?
Gary Eberle planted Syrah in Paso Robles in the early '70’s I believe. The vineyard became ‘Meridian’ later. I selected budwood from it in 1990 before it finally succumbed to Phylloxera.
This is quite a thread drift, but a good place to get some history out there.
Back to the original question: It’s complicated. The state is so large and diverse, it is like asking the question of CA Chardonnay. The answer will depend on the style and location and will vary from Hanzell/Stony Hill to Mer Soleil/ZD.
Phelps is credited with the first varietally labeled Syrah in the US. As others noted, before then, it was a blender.
Yep, Syrah is really a ‘recent’ rhing relative to other varieties - and that makes it really exciting to me.
Yep, the Black Bear block at Zaca was planted in the mid 70’s - not sure when the first vintage was bottled but it would have most likely been the late 70s or early 80s.
I’m not sure where Gary Eberle got his cuttings, but the Estrella clone from the old Estrella River Vineyard in Paso provided cuttings for many vineyards througout the Central Coast and beyond in the 80s and into the 90s.
The interesting part of this discussion is the obvious comparison with the Northern Rhone - but just as some old world CA cabs and chards can be considered ‘classics’ without direct comparisons to Burgundy, perhaps domestic syrahs will be afforded that luxury at some time as well.
And I believe that there are great syrahs that strut their stuff unbelievably well young with long decant - Alban Revas come to mind . . .of course, YMMV.
Fred and Larry - There was some Paso Robles syrah bottled under the Domaine Lauren label in 1983 that was quite awesome… and ~$5 a bottle, as I recall. I guessed that might be Estrella River fruit, but was never sure. I don’t think I ever saw the Dom. Lauren brand before or after. Ever hear of that stuff? I first tasted it blind with a bunch of 83 Northern Rhones circal 1985 or 1986 and a couple of us guessed it was the Guigal Cote Rotie. I’ve always been sorry I didn’t hold onto some for more than a few years go see how it evolved.
John, I had a 1982 Estrella River label Syrah in 1985/1986. It was pretty high ripeness stuff, very jammy and yummy. I don’t know what that vintage was like there in 1982. But I’m guessing it was pretty warm.
I had a long phone conversation with Gary Eberle before heading to Meridian to collect bud wood. I wish I remember the exact details of the conversation regarding provenance and timing. At the time I was more interested in the performance of the selection. If I find my notes, I’ll share that information.
Sean Thackrey has claimed to source very old vine Syrah in Napa Valley for the early Orions, but declined to let me walk the vineyard with him. Probably out of fear that I would steal the source (not something I would do).