CA/OR most expensive DTC Chardonnay and Pinot Noir

WINE TALK
21

So, could Aubert, Peter Michael, Marcassin, Domaine Serene, 00, etc actually sell a wine that costs as much as these Burgs that are imported? $600-1500/btl.

22

i thought he was alluding to secondary, which i was referring to.

23

It’s low or high depending on what your budget is. For some people a few hundred dollars a bottle isn’t out of line, for others it’s unimaginable.

And as Alan said, there’s cachet and marketing. The US wine industry isn’t that old relatively speaking, since we destroyed it utterly with Prohibition. So in the 1960s and 1970s it started up, looking at Bordeaux as a model.

The number of wineries and the number of “serious” wineries has been growing for the past few decades, but France has many decades head start. In spite of various wars over the centuries, France has always been producing wine. Places like England that didn’t make wine desired it. In the US, until the mid 1970s, the vast majority of serious wine drinkers didn’t have the selection in the US and were willing to pay for French wines.

The trendiness of Pinot Noir is even newer. Partly in response to Parker’s palate and it’s perceived influence on the world of wine, and partly in response to the dominance of Cab/Merlot blends on the “serious” wine front in the US, and partly in response to a stupid movie, Pinot Noir became very trendy in the past fifteen years. There was always some around, but not nearly as much as there is today.

And the market for most US wine is the USA, whereas the market for French wine is the world, including Great Britain and China and India. Moreover, the established regions making PN and Chardonnay in France tend to be subdivided into specific vineyards, which ensures that production is low relative to demand.

Finally, you can price your wine anyway you want to, but if nobody is willing to pay the price, you will have a lot of wine to drink yourself. As more people with big bucks invest in new vineyards and high-priced consultants, the price of the resulting wines will rise even more. Eventually people might realize that it’s just stupid to pay $200 for a bottle of wine that tasted without knowing the label, isn’t any more pleasurable than a wine costing a fraction of the price. At the highest end, price and quality are completely divorced and you’re paying for the label. And that gets back to marketing and cachet.

If you’re interested in quality rather than price, Alan is right on. There’s a lot of good wine being made and because the US lacks the restrictive laws of the European wine regions, people can explore and innovate and improve and perhaps surpass what you may get elsewhere for more money.

24

HT is getting old. if she said a wine was going to be her last vintage, maybe say there’s only a barrel, yea she could sell a chard for 600ish.

25

On a similar note, what’s the most expensive bottle out of WA? Is it Hors Categorie at $250/pop?

Also, to the point about whether you can make “as great” wine from Oregon or CA as you can from Bdx or Burgundy, no two wine regions are identical and that’s all down to your taste I think. Can you make great wine in all those places? I think the answer is yes, and I don’t think that opinion is controversial, preferences aside. The greatest ever OPN will always be different than the greatest Burgundy or Sonoma PN and that’s totally fine. I’ve had knee-buckling wines from all three places. I think if there was as much GC burgundy produced relative to demand as there was OPN prices would probably be somewhat similar. DRC DRC is $$$$$ because it’s allocated to hell and back and is the pinnacle of name-recognition unobtanium for people w/ a lot of money to throw around. Is it great? I’m sure it is. If they made 10,000 cases of it a year instead of 3-400 prices would be lower.

26

I’ve not sold much SQN, but I sold 3 bottles of Pearl Clutcher for $3,750 shortly after release.

27

Chardonnay:

Cameron-Clos Electrique Blanc
Walter Scott-Ex Novo, Cuvee Anne, Freedom Hill
Bethel Heights-Estate, High Wire
Haden Fig-Juliette
Lingua Franca
Morgan Long
Arterberry Maresh-Maresh Vineyard
Crowley Wines-Four Winds
Brickhouse-Cascadia
Goodfellow(I make these): Whistling Ridge(Richard’s Cuvee), Durant Vineyard

These are the most consistent producers that I am familiar with. Like Burgundy, there are also a number of very good producers who have made excellent wines but that I just haven’t had as many wines from or are working into being more consistent. I also like Eyrie, Ponzi(under rated for Chardonnay), Twill, Grochau, Johan(super wines but they tend to intentionally bottle with a slight bit of lees and while the wines have always been very good, it’s a different expression).

Pinot Noir:

Evesham Wood
Belle Pente
Flaneur
Patricia Green
Kelley Fox
Ayoub
Eyrie
Cameron
Walter Scott-especially Sojourner
Beaux Freres
Arteberry Maresh
Brickhouse
Goodfellow-particularly Whistling Ridge. Again, I make these wines but there’s a TN from David Bueker on the Goodfellow Heritage #7 that validates both the intent and degree of success that I have had narrowing the gap.

That said, this list might be better served of it was a list of vineyards rather than producers. My faves for Pinot Noir:

Arcus-Dundee Hills
Marjorie and Jessie-Eola Amity Hills(Cristom estate wines)
Le puits sec-Eola Amity Hills(Evesham wood)
Temperance Hill-Eola Amity Hills(look for Evesham Wood, J. K. Carriere, Bergstrom)
White Rose Vineyard-Dundee Hills
Abbey Ridge-Dundee Hills
Brickhouse Vineyard-Ribbon Ridge
Beaux Freres Vineyard-Ribbon Ridge
Patricia Green Estate Vineyard-Ribbon Ridge
Durant Vineyard-Dundee Hills
Bethel Heights, Flat Block-Eola Amity Hills
Sojourner-Eola Amity Hills

All of these are incomplete lists, but yhis is a good place to start.

28

Great post. I agree completely, but would add that Burgundy has the huge advantage of having the vineyards codified. Grand cru is delineated from centuries ago. In Oregon it’s word of mouth, and a lot of the mouth isn’t necessarily from the best wines.

29

Thanks!

30

I’ve been buying Aubert since the 2004 vintage and the price is no where near these top levels, so I guess I would have to consider it a good QPR. I bought a bottle of The Judge years ago just to try it when it was well north of $100 but it is too oxidative in style for my taste so I did not buy more.

31

Lack of [sufficient] acidity & minerality & sense of place & proven track record of improving in the cellar.

32

I’ve recently taken my Aubert inventory and masterfully blended it with young Rombauer in my new release, 2019 “Classy Cougar”. Normally $600 per 750ml at retail, I’ll discount to $593 a bottle if you purchase a case or more.

33

The Rombauer 5L at $500 is the equivalent of $75 a bottle.

I always have some large format wines at my national sales meeting dinners, always including wines I don’t represent. If I didn’t consider Rombauer Ptrid Swll, it would be a no-brainer for the meeting at that price. But as I don’t want to drink it, I’ll pass. Still, it’s a reasonable price considering reputation, popularity and sales.

Dan Kravitz

34

My favorite chards from Oregon. I love the Richards cuvee and the ex novo especially. (Great work btw Marcus).

Would be curious to your view if you truly believe these being the best of the best of Oregon stands up to the best from burgundy?
Granted burgundy cost a whole lot more, but if we put price aside (even the 50x price potentially). Do you think these stand up to Roulot, Clean Leflaives, Coche 1er crus? Not to even mention the Monty/hyphen-Monty’s?

I don’t feel like they do (blind). So I think it is for good reason burgundy has the reputation and cachet. But of course once you factor in price and “value” Oregon is back in the game.

35

Sorry, that’s not actually correct. There are plenty of wines being produced that have both correct acidity and minerality for matching with higher priced European wines.
However, there is no shortage of assumption that Oregon and California wines do not have the same acidity and minerality…

…and no shortage of wines from both areas that are lacking in them as well.

36

Great question. My basic answer is that the wines you highlighted above match up with the very best 1er Cru vineyards, and occasionally some Grand Crus.

Le Montrachet, Batard, Chevalier…no. Not yet.

We do a tasting for somms and the top retail accounts in Portland every spring putting Goodfellow into a line up with both white and red Burgundies. It’s not meant to be a competition, rather to continue to try and break down the assumption that Willamette Valley wines don’t/can’t have the acidity, tannin, and minerality that wines from Burgundy do.

The wines have to be the same vintage, and we include a library flight as well(this year it was 05). In the past 4 years, the Chardonnays have been a fun tasting. As one would expect, favorites are subjective. But the overall quality of the wines is remarkably even. Typically we’ll have wineries like Jobard, Roulot, PYCM, De Montille, Morey, Boillot, Carillon, and Dauvissat as the French comps. Some villages are easier to see the through line. For me Meursault is the easiest comparison for the better Willamette Valley producers. I also tasted 2015 Coche Muersault alongside the 2015 Richard’s and they were shockingly similar…and I was honestly not expecting that. Coche was/is still one of the producers I feel we are working towards the quality of.

So from a direct comparison, if $$$ is no object, I don’t know if we hit the very top yet. But I do think that the wines are as good as wines made by VERY good houses in Burgundy from everything but the very top sites. Once you look at pricing…then it depends on how much personal attachment you have to a wine.

The reds are also usually a surprise for the tasters. Although I openly feel that we’re more comparable to 1er Cru wines, and not really at Grand Cru top producer quality yet. In the younger wine flights it’s harder to tell which is Oregon and which is France than most tasters expect, i.e. the structural components of my wines is in a correct place for young Pinot Noir.

That said, we are still definitely a work in process. But I do think it would be fun to set up an offline version of this tasting for Berserkers at some point.

37

Done a few tastings like that. Blind, so nobody knows what is what. It’s a very good way to address questions regarding relative quality.

Never did Oregon though.

38

Thanks Marcus, appreciate the response. Quite agree with your perspective, and glad to see the focus on quality from Oregon. I hope the quality continues to grow… and the prices not quite go where Burgs have gone! [wow.gif]

On the bolded comment above, completely agree… Bagging the wines blind, the best Oregon has to offer certainly has all the acid/minerality that a Burg can have… it does take a lot of education and effort to break down dogma.
[cheers.gif]

Concur! champagne.gif

39

I’d travel to Oregon for that tasting, or host in Seattle.

40

Muh brutha can certainly talk the talk.

Let’s see if he can walk the walk.

Bring. It. On.