Burgundy: Vosne

[Charlie_Carnes]

I have spent many years exploring Burgundy and basically know who the good producers are, what the good vineyards are, etc. I have done the legwork. I don’t really need the information from others. I just can’t afford the wine that I want. The reason I started these threads is because of the thread on Volnay where similar information on the best producers is discussed. If people are willing to share this information, and want to discuss the differences between producers, why not just organize it rationally. Sure, the people with cash will get free knowledge from people who have done the legwork, but I think we can’t stop that these days. Also, why not consolidate tasting notes in some fashion. If people have a note on a Nuits Damodes wine, or a Morey Blanchards wine, I thought it would make sense to gather them all together so people can read through it and compare a Chambolle Cras with a Chambolle Charmes for instance.

Have you ever heard of Cellar Tracker?

[Danius_Barzdukas]

+1

I have long thought that it would be useful to combine discussions on specific wine regions into some organized structure so that tasting notes or discussions on producers could be grouped together, especially for Burgundy. The thread on several producers in Volnay made me think that this sort of thing is happening anyway, so it makes sense to create such a structure. Trying to create a structure is my attempt at a contribution to WB. If this structure doesn’t appeal to you, I suppose you can ask the moderators to not allow it or simply not participate in the threads and ignore them. Or if the moderators feel like it goes against the spirit of WB in some way, they can delete these posts. I won’t file any sort of grievance if they do. Or if there is a process for suggesting such a structure, I am happy to propose it officially in some way and let it be vetted and cleared and improved by the appropriate people.

Are you reading the responses to your own thread? As I posted above (twice, with a link in the first), we already had a set of Burgundy appellation threads for the same purpose, and each one began with a summary of vineyards and producers. In my opinion it would be better to continue posting in those threads, i.e. combine the new responses with the old. You could report your own threads and ask the mods to do that.

Sorry. I have been at work and haven’t read everything. This is a good point. I have sent a message to the mods asking to delete these threads or add the information to the old threads. No need to have duplicate threads. Thanks.

[Danius_Barzdukas]

I have spent many years exploring Burgundy and basically know who the good producers are, what the good vineyards are, etc. I have done the legwork. I don’t really need the information from others. I just can’t afford the wine that I want. The reason I started these threads is because of the thread on Volnay where similar information on the best producers is discussed. If people are willing to share this information, and want to discuss the differences between producers, why not just organize it rationally. Sure, the people with cash will get free knowledge from people who have done the legwork, but I think we can’t stop that these days. Also, why not consolidate tasting notes in some fashion. If people have a note on a Nuits Damodes wine, or a Morey Blanchards wine, I thought it would make sense to gather them all together so people can read through it and compare a Chambolle Cras with a Chambolle Charmes for instance.

Have you ever heard of Cellar Tracker?

Yes. But I don’t think many people use Cellar Tracker to have discussions or in an interactive way like people use this site.

[Mattstolz]

Arnoux, Mugneret-Gibourg…

All the thread just feel like pumping the board for info versus being part of the conversations.

And yeah, we have a search function here.

honestly, I think that the search function on WB is a little bit annoying to use. it probably has a lot to do with the previously mentioned wealth of knowledge that has been shared on the site, but lets say I am actually looking for info on Vosne and I search for it. I get a response for every tasting note of a wine from Vosne, every post where someone mentioned how they like Vosne more than ____, and then a response for every post that quoted the post of the tasting note or the comparison. the thread I want is somewhere on page 8 of the search results, but you have to sort through all 8 pages of results to find it. it works great when I have something really specific I’m looking for, like tasting notes for DRC Vosne 2014, but if I want general info about Vosne it is hard to find

[Howard_Cooper]

Ummm … agree with David. This does not feel like participation in WB. Your threads do not include any contributions from you – and ignore the wealth of knowledge already shared so graciously on this board by so many and available via Search. And your comment about 'free knowledge" is also odd - perhaps you’d like to subscribe to WB and become a GCC before trying to restructure the place to your personal liking.

+1

I have long thought that it would be useful to combine discussions on specific wine regions into some organized structure so that tasting notes or discussions on producers could be grouped together, especially for Burgundy. The thread on several producers in Volnay made me think that this sort of thing is happening anyway, so it makes sense to create such a structure. Trying to create a structure is my attempt at a contribution to WB. If this structure doesn’t appeal to you, I suppose you can ask the moderators to not allow it or simply not participate in the threads and ignore them. Or if the moderators feel like it goes against the spirit of WB in some way, they can delete these posts. I won’t file any sort of grievance if they do. Or if there is a process for suggesting such a structure, I am happy to propose it officially in some way and let it be vetted and cleared and improved by the appropriate people.

You say you know who all the best producers are, but you don’t tell anyone. When you get called on it, you get outraged like a little child rather than apologizing and providing substance to the discussion. What kind of a$$hole are you?

[Danius_Barzdukas]

Thanks Howard,
Here are some of the best producers (not limited to Vosne of course): Rousseau, Dujac, Roumier, Mugnier, Barthod, Chevillon, DRC, Hudelot-Noellat, Lafarge, d’Angerville. There are others as well, of course. I think you have heard of them, so there is no reason for me to list them. I don’t drink them because I can’t afford most of them. I don’t think me mentioning them will add anything to the discussion. I am more interested in a discussion of the different vineyards and that sort of information sharing.
I am not outraged at all and I don’t see where you see that. And I don’t know what I am supposed to apologize for-starting a thread in a way that someone didn’t like? I am just surprised that people are upset at me and attacking me because I was trying to create some sort of structure to this discussion. I am not interested in being attacked. I probably phrased my initial post poorly, unfortunately. I was being a bit tongue in cheek about people sharing all of their best information, but that didn’t translate. But I have asked the moderators to close these threads. There are other ones out there on this sort of discussion of appellations, as Craig has mentioned, so if people are interested in that sort of discussion, it can take place there.

If people are interested in continuing this sort of discussion, I suggest you go to the appropriate thread found on the link below. Thanks for finding that and suggesting that Craig.

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/search.php?keywords=WB+Burgundy+appellation+series&terms=all&author=&fid[]=1&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=a&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

[Craig_G]

Thanks, Danius. I think some of the responses here were a bit unfair. I like the idea a lot and hope we can keep the discussion going in the other threads.

Two things that helped at the time were that the threads were introduced a week apart, and each one had some basic material in the first post. I think a lot of the negative reaction here is due to a bunch of threads showing up with no content.

With respect to people saying you should use CT or search to find all this info (or for that matter to merge it all into one thread), I think they’re missing the point of a focused discussion of a single appellation.

[Karl_K]

If it wasn’t initially clear, I think it is clear now by his referring to the old Ray Walker threads that Danius was simply trying to provide a structure or format rather than steal wisdom (if such a thing is possible).

Sure he didn’t post content himself initially and the structure may already have existed in a nice way, but let’s give the guy a break.

My sense is he was trying to be helpful, if a bit misguided or posting some topics not really suited to how this board organically evolves.

My suggestion to him, if I could go back in time, would be for him to just post one post proposing his idea and asking for feedback as to what the Berserkers here think.

Before we went berserk, which is if course to be expected.

[Peter_Chiu]

Danius…I agree with Craig - perhaps…once a week.

Thanks for the links.

The following text posted in …2010…brings back my memory :

*Maybe we should take Romanee Conti, la Tache, la Romanee, Richebourg, Musigny and Chambertin in their entirety and give them to our own …

[Gerhard_P]

… What kind of a$$hole are you?

Is THAN necessary ???

[Greg_K]

Thanks Howard,
Here are some of the best producers (not limited to Vosne of course): Rousseau, Dujac, Roumier, Mugnier, Barthod, Chevillon, DRC, Hudelot-Noellat, Lafarge, d’Angerville. There are others as well, of course. I think you have heard of them, so there is no reason for me to list them. I don’t drink them because I can’t afford most of them. I don’t think me mentioning them will add anything to the discussion. I am more interested in a discussion of the different vineyards and that sort of information sharing.

I don’t understand the point then. How can you have a discussion about Volnay without discussing Lafarge and d’Angerville, for example? Are you just looking for under the radar cheaper producers? This is a genuine question, I’m not trying to be snarky.

[Charlie_Carnes]

… steal wisdom (if such a thing is possible).

I’ll sell you some

[Danius_Barzdukas]

Thanks Howard,
Here are some of the best producers (not limited to Vosne of course): Rousseau, Dujac, Roumier, Mugnier, Barthod, Chevillon, DRC, Hudelot-Noellat, Lafarge, d’Angerville. There are others as well, of course. I think you have heard of them, so there is no reason for me to list them. I don’t drink them because I can’t afford most of them. I don’t think me mentioning them will add anything to the discussion. I am more interested in a discussion of the different vineyards and that sort of information sharing.

I don’t understand the point then. How can you have a discussion about Volnay without discussing Lafarge and d’Angerville, for example? Are you just looking for under the radar cheaper producers? This is a genuine question, I’m not trying to be snarky.

Greg,
I’ll try to give a good answer. I said I don’t need to know who the major producers are because I have read about all of that. I think that the appreciation of Burgundy is not simply to know a list of names. I think it involves a knowledge of the nuances of producers or specific vineyards. In that sense discussing top producers, like Lafarge and d’Angerville, is necessary and worthwhile. It is interesting to know how a plot of land owned by Lafarge may be different than the same plot owned by d’Angerville or how the styles are different. This is the kind of stuff that I enjoy tremendously. I wish the discussion would focus a little more on such things. The reason I stopped buying newsletters was because the information gets to be a bit repetitive after a while. The famous names are reviewed, the wines are described a bit, points are given. There is some description of vineyards sometimes (more iron, rounder, delicate, etc). I know it is hard for a reviewer to do more than that, and I very much appreciate when it is done (a description followed by “a real Caillerets” for example). But it is very hard to know how Lafarge is different from d’Angerville for example, or how Joseph Voillot relates to them. In that sense William’s contribution here is extremely appreciated. But it is hard to learn that oneself. I assume you can buy the wines year in and year out drink them and learn from them. That’s what I hoped to do at some point, until I, like many, got priced out of the burgundy market. So I can’t afford to do that, unfortunately. So this sort of discussion is pretty much an intellectual exercise for me. And anyone is fine- DRC, Leroy, Rousseau, etc. It is all interesting to learn. Again, unfortunately, since I can’t drink most of the stuff, I can’t contribute much in this way.

And yes, I am looking for under the radar producers because they are cheaper and this is the only way I can actually learn from burgundy by drinking the actual wine anymore. I am not asking people here to really share that information. I spend a lot of my time trying to find them myself. I just hope those producers don’t become unaffordable or unobtainable to anyone but the rich, like the rest, so I hope these discussions don’t just become a way to unearth more producers to put on the unaffordable heap. But I acknowledge that it may be impossible to avoid that.

I hope this answers your question.