Nathan- what about?
2008 pavelot savigny 1er narrbontons $28
Even the 10 is only $33
I’ve never seen the label in our market.
Wine-Searcher says that it has very limited distribution nationwide, and that it’s now more like a $40 to $50 wine, if you can find it:
http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/pavelot+narbontons
[Which is not to say that it’s a bad wine, it’s just that it’s a rather expensive wine which, to the best of my knowledge, is not available in my market.]
I’d take the 1986 Gruaud Larose over a Dugat-Py almost any day. Though I did like their 2000 Charmes quite a bit.
My advice is to try and find tastings. Trying a wider variety of producers/regions is the way to determine what you like before you start spending a lot of money.
That would have been great advice about ten or fifteen years ago.
I hate to be keep being so damned pessimistic, but do any retailers even open good Burgundy for free tastings anymore?
If they do, then I’m not aware of it.
[In my experience, there’d be a crowd lined up all the way around the block, waiting to get in the door.]
Now paid tastings might be a good route to pursue.
If you really wanted to learn Burgundy, and if you could find a tasting in the $100 range, which featured a nice broad range of, say, four good 1ers and four good GCs, then that might be a good use of the money.
But I’m worried that 1 oz pours of “four good 1ers and four good GCs” is gonna run you more like $300 these days.
Your argument is absurd. I am the last one to be claiming that Burgundy prices have not gone into the level of ridiculous for the upper level wines, particularly those of the most sought-after producers (Rousseau, Dujac, Mugnier, etc., etc.) and particularly through our absurd triple-tier system, AND in the speculative market where those bottles that are not sourced through normal retail distribution (and some that are) get marked up like crazy. A function of increasing demand (including a wealthy new Asian market) and very short supply. But that is like arguing that all CA cabernet is crap and there is nothing decent below $500 a bottle because Harlan and Screaming Eagle et al charge absurd prices for their cabs. (By the way, I am not a cab drinker!) Or like arguing that Bordeaux is crap because you have to pay $400 and up for a bottle just because pricing for the first growths have escalated despite a massive production of 15-20 K cases! Even in a short vintage like 2010 where prices are higher, I have had some excellent NSG at $65 and $70 a bottle, an excellent top GCh Cazetiers for $90, and been buying some grand crus hovering around $100.
However, apparently you either have a chip on your shoulder about Burgundy OR are just trying to make a point by taking a completely absurd, reactive stance that is nonsensical. As I said, I have been complaining about Burgundy prices for quite a while, but only because the top bottles by the top producers that I have been buying for so many years have been priced (NOT at the domaines, but through our distribution here in the USA) out of my reach, and that is frustrating. But to claim that THOSE bottles, at their absurd pricing, are the only bottles worth drinking is to display willful ignorance.
Talking to you Burgheads, who have 1998 pricepoints burned into your heads, is like talking to a bunch of aging hippies who think that just because Woodstock was such a psychedelic experience, back in the day, it necessarily follows that they ought to run out to the store and purchase the latest Miley Cyrus CD.
I live in Realville.
Not in Fantasyburg.
In Realville, you do not find swallowable Burgundy for less than $100, and, increasingly, it’s getting way out towards $150 and beyond.
Nathan- are you suggesting that there is no drinkable burgundy in savigny, beaune, santenay, marsannay, fixin, or NSG? As you can find village and premier crus from all of those places for less than $100 per bottle. In some of those areas, you would be hard pressed to find a bottle OVER $100.
Many corton’s can be found for less than $100 per bottle- are you suggesting that corton is undrinkable?
Where is realsville? I live in TN- which has some of the most restrictive alcohol rules in the nation and I can find quality village and 1er burgs under $100 a bottle.
The pavelot you can’t find is available from Jjbuckley for $28 a bottle right now. Panzer listed a bunch of nice burgs under $50 and some in the $20s and $30s that he is selling- right now.
I think you either arent trying or you have an axe to grind…
Stop feeding the troll. Nathan has derailed countless burg threads with the same line of garbage. Set label to “troll” and communication format to ignore! (long list of expletives deleted)
I guess it’s axe to grind then… Thanks Brady
Yes, no use in arguing this point any further, as the counters are illogical and rational statements are ignored. Bye.
That’s just silly. I drink excellent wines from Burgundy all the time, at price points well below $50, and often enough under $30. Admittedly, this is a lot easier to do with white than red, but there are reds that fit the bill as well.
As others have said, don’t feed the troll.
You’ll get to read plenty of Nathan’s posts on this subject on any Burgundy thread that mentions pricing without any encouragement.
Eric, you are fortunate to live in the area with one of the best sources around for mature Burgundy at reasonable prices. Get on the e-mail list for http://envoyerfinewines.com/ Be prepared to get bombarded with e-mails, but there are some great deals here. For example, a few months back I got 2007 Chandon des Briailles Pernand Vergelesses Ille des Vergelesses for $30. Now, I realize that this wine does not really exist because there are no Burgundies for less than $100, but somehow it showed up in my office a couple of weeks ago.
I do warn that when you get started with Envoyer you may not be able to stop. A friend that I recommended the store to told me that he hated me 15 cases later.
At present, I drink and purchase more Burgundy than any other wine. It currently represent 43% of my cellar, and as of today I have 79 bottles pending delivery. All purchased without tasting, of course, which is how one must do it.
Do I love Burgundy? Obviously, yes. Do I get as much value from those wines as I do wines from elsewhere? No, definitely not.
Sherry. Vouvray. Rioja. Barolo/Barbaresco. Alto Piemonte. Cru Beaujolais. Just off the top of my head, these are all wines that bring me far more pleasure per dollar than Burgundy. Far more. Every now and then, I cringe at paying top dollar for non-Burgs. And every now and then I acknowledge that what I consider “top dollar” for those wines would only purchase me an acceptable village wine from Burgundy.
So I pay out the nose for Burgundy, but I don’t think I can do it for much longer. 2012 could be the final straw, another immensely tiny “great” vintage that might be the last affordable one. I see the writing on the wall. I know I’ve bought my last Dujac. Fourrier will probably go stratospheric soon. DRC and Leroy were never affordable for me, and despite my great love for the wines of this region, I may never taste its vanguards.
I keep trying Oregon and Cali PNs. I recently sourced some Rhys, Anthill, Copain. I’m cheering on the “balance” movement. Because unless the bottom falls out of the wine market I know my days of Burg hunting are soon to be over.
And that might be for the best.
Nathan expresses his POV somewhat extremely. Though I cannot agree on some of the details, I do agree with the basic gist of what he’s saying. I would recommend to anyone considering jumping into the insanity that is Burgundy to not dismiss his views out-of-hand. There is considerably more than a shred of truth to what he says. Considerably more.
As usual on such threads…asking for advice about how to get into a new wine area, there are tons of responses, but little idea of what the questioner’s goals are. As I’ve read this thread, I have no idea: to load up on stuff that will be ready in 15 years; to try stuff that will be ready in 15-20 years but that can taste good before going into their shells; to try some mature or maturing wines; to learn about the region by some criterion/method.
Hard to answer or evaluate any of this discussin without understanding eric’s goals in some detail-- as is almost always the case with such threads.
“Nathan expresses his POV somewhat extremely. Though I cannot agree on some of the details, I do agree with the basic gist of what he’s saying. I would recommend to anyone considering jumping into the insanity that is Burgundy to not dismiss his views out-of-hand. There is considerably more than a shred of truth to what he says. Considerably more.”
I agree that Burgundy prices, at least for the most sought-after wines, are through the roof. Of course, this happened to First Growth Bordeaux, Chave Hermitage, Giacosa Riserva Barolo, etc. Also has happened, with MUCH less justification IMO, to the high scoring CA cabs. I am frustrated with what has happened to the pricing of my favorite Burgundies, and the fact that so many of the top premier crus are selling in the $150-170 range. BUT this applies to the TOP wines, the “collectible” wines, the ones that encourage speculation, and this has happened not just in Burgundy but in other regions as well. No, not in regions where people are not clamoring for too few wines.
When Nathan says that you can’t find any Burgundy “Worth the money you spent on them, and Swallowable” without going “substantially past the three-figure mark” he is just plain wrong. So, I do not argue against the fact that Burgundy prices have in many cases risen to intolerable levels (I am frustrated as well), but those are for select wines, and he is irrationally painting the whole region with the same brush. I could as easily say something foolish about how you can’t get a “swallowable” CA cab for under $300. In Burgundy you have to look for newer producers, established producers who are still reasonable, less heralded areas (though plenty of top communes still have reasonably priced wines if you don’t confine yourself to the 'collectible" producers). Are wines from other areas besides Burgundy cheaper? Chilean wines are much less. Nathan should stay away from Burgundy…and Bordeaux…and CA cab. Just stop spewing stupid statements in a silly effort to take an extreme position.
plenty of good white burgs under $100. PYCM makes a huge swath of white burgs under $100 that are ridiculously good.
In your camp… had a couple of good bottles brought by fellow WBers at offlines… but otherwise. don’t own any, and can’t seem to know what the hell i’m buying, especially at $100 a bottle.
much to learn… much to learn…
It is like saying “Don’t buy Bordeaux if you can’t afford Petrus, Latour, or Mouton”.
I have “Johnny one-note” on ignore but with all of you quoting him and discussing his nonsense, it does me little good.