Burgundy vintage rankings

[Howard_Cooper]

Would the view on 11 vs 12 vs 13 vs 14 change if you were looking at Volnay (Lafarge, Angerville etc) specifically?

I think 2011 is weaker everywhere. Two years ago at the Paulee, I really liked Angerville’s 2014 Taillepieds. But, from Volnay, as from a lot of places, if you are going back, see if you can find 2010s.

[paul_hanna]

2012 is a sleeper vintage, some very, very good wines. Will unfold over time.

2014 is underrated, at the top end, they are beautiful. Many drinking very well now too.

2001 and 2013 except for the very top producers I would mostly avoid.

2015 Vs 2016 is interesting, I am really liking the 16’s I have had, I’d almost be tempted to rate it over '15…not sure it is a good from top to bottom though.

[Howard_Cooper]

2012 is a sleeper vintage, some very, very good wines. Will unfold over time.

2014 is underrated, at the top end, they are beautiful. Many drinking very well now too.

2001 and 2013 except for the very top producers I would mostly avoid.

2015 Vs 2016 is interesting, I am really liking the 16’s I have had, I’d almost be tempted to rate it over '15…not sure it is a good from top to bottom though.

When you say top to bottom, are you referring to producer or appellation?

[J0hn_mith]

Would the view on 11 vs 12 vs 13 vs 14 change if you were looking at Volnay (Lafarge, Angerville etc) specifically?

2015. I mean seriously…don’t waste your money on these off vintages. Instead of buying a mixed case from 12s and 14s (oh and avoid 11s pls). Buy a fewer amount of the 15s, the wines are profound experience. You will thank yourself (and me) years later!

[J0hn_mith]

2011 - $$$
2012 - $$$$
2013 - $$$$$
2014 - $$$$$$
2015 - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
2016 - $$$$$$$

You are very kind with 2011 and less kind with 2015

[David_Bu3ker]

Would the view on 11 vs 12 vs 13 vs 14 change if you were looking at Volnay (Lafarge, Angerville etc) specifically?

2015. I mean seriously…don’t waste your money on these off vintages. Instead of buying a mixed case from 12s and 14s (oh and avoid 11s pls). Buy a fewer amount of the 15s, the wines are profound experience. You will thank yourself (and me) years later!

My gosh I hope you are kidding. There are so many delicious 2014s that I cannot imagine skipping the vintage (I don’t know 2012 well at all yet). The idea that 2014 is “off” is frankly absurd, unless one is only interested in cherry picking, in which case what do you drink while you wait 20+ years for the trophy vintage to mature?

[J0hn_mith]

Hopefully, people will agree with you and attendance will be down giving me more time to talk with people.

Ah, what a highly refined and a classy response!

I’m glad there are new producers to check out. Just two years back, there was Rousseau, Roumier, d’Angerville, PYCM, etc. Not saying the new kids are not making good wines, but would have loved to see more of the classic producers to get an idea of the vintage.

Gouges, Jadot, Faiveley, Mugneret-Gibourg, Drouhin, Hudelot-Noellat to name a few, and you can’t get an idea of the vintage?

I could drink happily with only those producers for the rest of my life!

Gouges, Jadot, Faively: seriously! Jeez, what have they done to you!


Just a reminder of quality producer levels (both whites and reds). Might have skipped a name or two.

Class 1: DRC, Leroy, Coche-Dury, Roulot

Class 2: Dujac, Rousseau, M-G, Raveneau, PYCM, Mugnier

Class 3: Vogue, Leflaive, Roumier, Ramonet, bonneau du martray

Class 4: Arnaud ente, prieure roche, Cathiard maybe?

Class 5: liger-belair, Dauvissat, Fourrier, Bizot

HN RSV is all right, but I would rather go for DRC, leroy or even cathiard. Jadot might make a CSJ but is no match for Rousseau or Fourrier’s version. If you want a musigny try the real deal from Mugnier or roumier.

Rather than buy a case of these cheaper versions, buy fewer bottles of the top rate producers…the experience is no match! If you think you are drinking a $100 Chambertin you are just kidding yourself.

Now among that Paulee 2019 list, only 3 are great producers. HN is ok, not earth-shaking.

Im not salivating to drink Heitz’s Pommard or some silly Marsannay. This was supposed to be a grand maruqee event. Next thing you know they will tout the up coming producer from f*ing Macon and pernand vergelesses and charge $400 for it!

[J0hn_mith]

All

Would love to get your thoughts on how would you group last 6 vintages of red Burgundy (2011 to 2016). What are your top two, middle two and bottom two vintages for CdB and CdN.

Most publications I have read would generally classify 2015 & 16 as the top two but vary from each other on 2011 to 2014.

Dinesh,

You think people here know more than those who taste at all of the domains for decades and report for a living? Get a subscription to burghound or Vinous or WA…look at the ranking of vintages and producers. Go with the best.

[J0hn_mith]

Would the view on 11 vs 12 vs 13 vs 14 change if you were looking at Volnay (Lafarge, Angerville etc) specifically?

2015. I mean seriously…don’t waste your money on these off vintages. Instead of buying a mixed case from 12s and 14s (oh and avoid 11s pls). Buy a fewer amount of the 15s, the wines are profound experience. You will thank yourself (and me) years later!

My gosh I hope you are kidding. There are so many delicious 2014s that I cannot imagine skipping the vintage (I don’t know 2012 well at all yet). The idea that 2014 is “off” is frankly absurd, unless one is only interested in cherry picking, in which case what do you drink while you wait 20+ years for the trophy vintage to mature?

2014 is for whites, for reds 2015 rules!

[David_Bu3ker]

Gouges, Jadot, Faively: seriously! Jeez, what have they done to you!

Umm…I am not an elitist with endless bags of money. I just like really good wine.

[Sebastian_C]

Ah, what a highly refined and a classy response!

I’m glad there are new producers to check out. Just two years back, there was Rousseau, Roumier, d’Angerville, PYCM, etc. Not saying the new kids are not making good wines, but would have loved to see more of the classic producers to get an idea of the vintage.

Gouges, Jadot, Faiveley, Mugneret-Gibourg, Drouhin, Hudelot-Noellat to name a few, and you can’t get an idea of the vintage?

I could drink happily with only those producers for the rest of my life!

Gouges, Jadot, Faively: seriously! Jeez, what have they done to you!


Just a reminder of quality producer levels (both whites and reds). Might have skipped a name or two.

Class 1: DRC, Leroy, Coche-Dury, Roulot

Class 2: Dujac, Rousseau, M-G, Raveneau, PYCM, Mugnier

Class 3: Vogue, Leflaive, Roumier, Ramonet, bonneau du martray

Class 4: Arnaud ente, prieure roche, Cathiard maybe?

Class 5: liger-belair, Dauvissat, Fourrier, Bizot

HN RSV is all right, but I would rather go for DRC, leroy or even cathiard. Jadot might make a CSJ but is no match for Rousseau or Fourrier’s version. If you want a musigny try the real deal from Mugnier or roumier.

Rather than buy a case of these cheaper versions, buy fewer bottles of the top rate producers…the experience is no match! If you think you are drinking a $100 Chambertin you are just kidding yourself.

Now among that Paulee 2019 list, only 3 are great producers. HN is ok, not earth-shaking.

Im not salivating to drink Heitz’s Pommard or some silly Marsannay. This was supposed to be a grand maruqee event. Next thing you know they will tout the up coming producer from f*ing Macon and pernand vergelesses and charge $400 for it!

I Feel a disturbance in the force…

[Fred_C]

2012 is a sleeper vintage, some very, very good wines. Will unfold over time.

2014 is underrated, at the top end, they are beautiful. Many drinking very well now too.

2001 and 2013 except for the very top producers I would mostly avoid.

2015 Vs 2016 is interesting, I am really liking the 16’s I have had, I’d almost be tempted to rate it over '15…not sure it is a good from top to bottom though.

Agree with your assessment on the 14. Beautiful stuff.

Also I agree possibly 16 over 15 but pricing on 16 is higher than 15 in some instances.

Rousseau made killler 13s.

[MChang]

I’ve found 13 to be a very underrated vintage, especially in the cdb for reds. Many of the 13 village and premier cru wines are drinking well at the moment.

[Gerhard_P]

2015
2016
2014
2012
2013
2011

Almost my take (red CdN only):
2015
2012
2016
2014
2013
2011
… but the middle 4 are very close in quality, but different in style - so it´s also a matter of preference …

[Eric_Lundblad]

I like David’s list, and is similar to what I buy. Also, imo, Leflaive dropped to the bottom of the quality hierarchy when their premox became shockingly bad.

[Marc_Frontario]

I remember when '07 released, everyone panned ’
…yet I rather liked it alot

Fast forward to vintage '11 …I like it quite well

[Joshua_Kates]

Howard, the la paulee list of producers looks weak though. With the high prices, the lineup should be much better.

Winemakers — La Paulée

That’s last years list, no? Already happened. One in NYC tends to get a deeper selection of vignerons, though I agree these are by no means shabby.

It says 2019.

Howard,
FWIW: it was showing 2018 from SF when I looked. I wonder if it has been finalized; there are some who are missing that I am surprised by, like Fourrier (if not Rousseau).

[MChang]

I’ve only had a few 11s, and the ones I’ve had have been quite good. I would be a buyer if they were well priced. Wine house blew out some dubans clos sorbe for ~35 a few years ago that I picked up quite a few of.

[Marcus_Dean]

2012 is a sleeper vintage, some very, very good wines. Will unfold over time.

2014 is underrated, at the top end, they are beautiful. Many drinking very well now too.

2001 and 2013 except for the very top producers I would mostly avoid.

2015 Vs 2016 is interesting, I am really liking the 16’s I have had, I’d almost be tempted to rate it over '15…not sure it is a good from top to bottom though.

I agree with you on pretty much everything

[Marcus_Dean]

Gouges, Jadot, Faively: seriously! Jeez, what have they done to you!

Umm…I am not an elitist with endless bags of money. I just like really good wine.

+1