Burgundy: producer driven vs. vintage driven

WINE TALK
21

Just curious, Michael, if you wouldn’t call 2004 an “awful” vintage, what vintage you would call “awful”?

22

94


That said…there is/are good wines in any vintage…just have to find them…at least 04 has the whites.

23

Berry,
I actually quite agree with you - ie Producers are mostly about styles (in addition to their vineyards!). When I buy from a new producer, I use Burghound and look for any notes of excess oak or extreme ripeness etc. Allen does a good job of pointing out those issues.

24

For me affordability and accessibility also play an important part. I can’t enjoy the producer or vintage if I can’t afford them or find them.

Otherwise producer is much more important than vintage for me.

25

+1, easy to skip the sorry vintages with so much great wine out there, only surprise is reading this position when written by someone ITB.

26

Producer, entirely. 03 and 04 are certainly tricky-04 is an excellent vintage when the ‘vintage character’ is not there, with 03 only time will tell, but I think there will be some great old wines.

27

Producer. But it’s not like one ignores the fact that a vintage was a disaster (or was a disaster in a given commune) or the effects of the vineyard location. These questions are never as clear as Paul’s question above… one will always balance producer, vineyard and vintage. It’s what one generally uses as the first criterion.

Note that I reject the idea of objectively better wine and I don’t expect any method to be foolproof, so that this question comes down to “what gives me the best chance of buying interesting wines I’ll like?” For example, I love Savigny wines. Are they as good as top grand cru wines from Vosne or Gevrey? Probably not. But the affordability point brought up a few posts above is relevant to me and I suspect to most - I’m just not buying and routinely drinking $150+ bottles.

By the way, by ‘producer’ I’m NOT talking about famous names or high scores. I’m talking about producers who are very good at what they do year in a year out. Producers whose style matches with what I want from a wine. These might be name producers… but they might not be.

28

Burgundy taught me that lesser vintages can be better. Many/most 2005’s are downright hard to drink right now and 1999’s often don’t show that well either; such great vintages require a decade or more to even enter adolescence. I am currently enjoying 2000, 2001, and 2006, despite them being “lesser” vintages. Probably not as much as my beloved 2002, but they are much cheaper, and help reveal terroir and producer style. And to me that is more important than points.

I used to spend the overwhelming majority of my money on “great” vintages from various regions. Those days are now past. That said, I can’t say I’m 100% on the producer bandwagon in Burgundy, because I am still enjoying learning their styles. (FTR, I am quite producer oriented in the USA as well.)

29

I am not sure there is any reason to force you to make the choice. There is plenty of excellent Burgundy out there, and far more information than ever before as to who did well and who did not in the highly regarded years and also the less well regarded years.

I generally try and buy the better vintages. A poor vintage such as 2004 will limit even the best producers. I bought very few 2004s, as I did find the green meanies, the one notable exception some delicious 2004 Rousseau Chambertin, after tasting it at an auction. I bought a ton of 1999s, and always looking for more. Price wise they are currently trading at a fraction of 2005, and I am sure will end up less expensive in the secondary market than 2009.

As others have pointed out, some vintages have characteristics that will appeal to some. And some producers do really well in some vintages. I like 1996, which I have also bought in quantity, as I like the acidity, and Jadot did a remarkable job that year in taming any excess acidity, and they are as cheap as chips. That kind of combination means that Burgundy can be bought on a Bordeaux budget. [diablo.gif]

30

Well said Stuart!

31

Ian,

08 is a vintage that I really like as well.

Do you think the difference in eras is a result of technology and producers finding new ways to deal with difficult conditions?

Anthony

32

I like what Stuart said about producer being a positive filter and the vintage being a negative filter. Producer does determine what is great as opposed to merely very good. But then too, as someone else mentioned, you have to keep track of the history of a producer, as they change winemakers, have slump periods, etc. Of course, price is never a consideration! rolleyes

And Gerhard, I’ll take the '92 Musigny, even though I’m not familiar with the producer (my shortcoming - they don’t show up locally). [cheers.gif]

33

+1

34

I was talking to a top NZ winemaker at the Otago Pinot Noir conference and asked what make a great wine. His answer was 50% terroir, 30% vineyard management, 10% winemaking, 10% the rest - elevage, vintage… This is from a New World perspective too!

I have no doubt that he was being very modest in regard to his own skills but the point I took from it was that any producer who does not weight likewise is probably not worth buying, conversely emphasising the importance of producer…

35

Anthony…intrest post. Here are my thoughts :

  1. Producers - your favourite ones;

  2. Producers - whose style go well with the geneal characters of vintage years; and

  3. Producers - of your favourite AOCs and climats.

36

Hmmmm… Stuart…always love to read your comments. Long time that we have not had a chance to talk.

One small question to your maybe " answer".

My bigger goal is, of course, getting great wine and not buying not-so-great wine ( = terrible wine ) but sometimes it is difficult.

I gave you an example : I did not want to buy any Rouseau 04 or DRC 04; but I knew if I did not take my allocation of 2004, my allocation for 2005 would be cut or reduced. What should I do? [cheers.gif]

37

And the “answer” is, Peter…sell it. [help.gif] …as I have done with my 2004 Rousseau and Roumier…except the Chambertins, which I still have.

Or…buy mine and have an even larger collection of them. [swoon.gif]

38

Stuart… [thankyou.gif] … very logic.

39

Amazing how many Burg guys denigrate 2003. But when you open 'em (some of them, not all of them) and drink 'em, wow are they tasty. Hating on '03 Burgs generally = Anti Flavor Elitism…

40

Peter, had the 03 Clos Des Lambrays a couple of weeks ago and it killed the 02 of the same wine.