Burgundy & Beaujolais, not impressed

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

I doubt you’ll hear many complaints from the peanut gallery on this one.

[Alan_Eden]

Thanks for everyone taking time to write in this thread, i know i make sweeping statements but sorry thats just who i am. If i was a wine I would be a six month old Zin 17% alcohol that would rip your throat out on the way down !!

One thing that is very relevant here is that i have been drinking for 30 years and i actually started very much in France, i always had a love for Bordeaux that i maintain to this day, i love Champagne and am very keen on Rhone wines in general. I think my dislike for Burgs is deep rooted. Even thirty years ago when i was probably buying wines that are now considered out of reach i still never got into them. I cant recall Burg names but in the early days wines like Chateau Palmer, Cos’d estournal, LLC etc were easily available and affordable so im guessing the burgs i tried were good quality.

I discovered US wines in my second go around in this hobby so they are actually more of a destination than a starting point, if you like big bold Bordeaux where do you go ? i know that a Chateau Palmer has far more finesse than a lot of Cali wines but as ive demonstrated numerous times im fine with trading delicacy and finesse for flavour and power

[Martin_Steinley]

Okay, never mind. You should, indeed, stay in California, and you have the right avatar. Drink what you like, but its probably best not to post about what you don’t like after having too much of it.

[Alan_Eden]

@Martin Steinley

Okay, never mind. You should, indeed, stay in California, and you have the right avatar. Drink what you like, but its probably best not to post about what you don’t like after having too much of it.

LOL, probably correct sir, but then what would we talk about ?

[David_Bu3ker]

@Alan Eden

@Martin Steinley

Okay, never mind. You should, indeed, stay in California, and you have the right avatar. Drink what you like, but its probably best not to post about what you don’t like after having too much of it.

LOL, probably correct sir, but then what would we talk about ?

Actual wine?

[Drew_Goin]

@D@vid Bu3ker

@Alan Eden

@Martin Steinley

Okay, never mind. You should, indeed, stay in California, and you have the right avatar. Drink what you like, but its probably best not to post about what you don’t like after having too much of it.

LOL, probably correct sir, but then what would we talk about ?

Actual wine?

Ouch.

[David_Bu3ker]

Probably needed one of these

[Claus_Jeppesen]

@Richard T r i m p i

@Craig G

@Alan Eden

Bedrock
Saxum
Denner
Carlisle
Kosta Browne

These were Alan’s top 5 holdings. There’s no surprise he’s not going to like Burgundy.

[resizeableimage=400,250]HotDigitalNews.com is for sale | HugeDomains

Shocked!

RT

Like listening only to Coldplay

[Alan_Eden]

@D@vid Bu3ker

Probably needed one of these

[Sean_Moore]

@Peter Hirsch

I flew into San Francisco once. Looked around and decided to have lunch at a local Olive Garden. It sucked. Then I went to McDonalds for dinner. It sucked.
Why do all restaurants in San Francisco just suck so bad? Why do people say that it’s a good food city? My experience says that it sucks.

The Stonestown Mall Olive Garden? Wow, I’ve always had great meals there, and make it a point to visit every time I’m in the Bay Area. Much better than Vallejo or Palo Alto. Try the Five Cheese Ziti al Forno. It’s somewhat pricey, but that’s because it has five different cheeses.

[Sean_Moore]

Five.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Alan Eden

Im sure that really great Burgundy from the well know houses is great but otherwise i just dont get it.

Tonight i had a 2009 Louis Jadot Vosnee Romanee, a $50 bottle. I was not expecting fireworks but what i got was a tired old tasting wine that just had zero excitement. I know i like em young but one of the reasons is that a young wine wakes up your senses, this wine was like a dose of mother in law jokes. It was a tired red brown colour and the taste was equally tired, i could see how some people might say the flavour was resolved as no high points were present but if that is a condition of liking mature burgundy count me out.

As a comparison i also opened a 2014 Chiroubles, no other way to say it but what a crock of shit. This was a $20 bottle but to me tasted like the sort of wine you buy for 2 euro a litre in plastic bottles. It was thin and about as complex as Donald Trump.

Its the same thing i found with Italian wines, im sure there are great Burgundian wines but the affordable versions are to my taste just blown away by US wines. i just like a big flavourful fresh acidic minerally fruit driven wine and with the exception of Bordeaux, Rhone and some trocken Riesling you just dont get these characteristics in european wines

If you think a 2009 Vosne Romanee from Jadot is too old and tired, I highly recommend that you stop drinking Burgundy. My guess is that, if anything, it is a decade too young. Stick with what you like. Burgundy is not for you.

[Robert.A.Jr]

@Claus Jeppesen

@Alan Eden

Bedrock
Saxum
Denner
Carlisle
Kosta Browne

These were Alan’s top 5 holdings. There’s no surprise he’s not going to like Burgundy.

[resizeableimage=400,250]HotDigitalNews.com is for sale | HugeDomains

Shocked!

RT[/quote]
Like listening only to Coldplay [/quote]

During the Super Bowl of all things!!!

[Kevin_Porter]

Alan - for how long have you been serious about wine? For many of us, the path to AFWE wines starts with high alcohol fruit bombs (for me, Marquis Phillips and a few other Parker darlings). I can think of very few people, Beaunehead apparently being one, who sprang from the womb with a taste for fine burgundy.

EDIT - missed your post wherein you mentioned this being a 30 year enthusiasm. Guess if all paths lead to Burgundy yours is very long and winding.

I think the burgs and such that I drink now are better wines (taking Terry Theise’s advice and eschewing relativism) but I thoroughly enjoyed what I was drinking at each step of the journey and don’t generally try to troll those at other stages and/or with different tastes.

[Michae1_P0wers]

I agree with the thought that no '09 burg should be brown or tired. I’d expect most 2009 villages burgs at this point to be tight and perhaps to show acidic and closed. As for gamay, some people just don’t like it. It is a grape that shows very “grapey” in its wines. However, if you want bright acid and intense mineral, it definitely has that in spades. Didn’t catch whose Chiroubles you tried. I don’t buy much from that cru, but Coquelet can be seriously good.

Where I think you go wrong is by attributing the entire range of positive wine descriptors (or a good deal thereof anyway) to new world wines and declare that to be lacking in old world wines. You have made these sort of broadstroke generalizations in the past IIRC. For instance, many with an old world palate expect to find much, much, much more of the following in European wines:

• mineral
• bright acid
• interesting non-fruit flavors
• complexity

The typical criticism of old world wines is that they are missing fruit intensity (obviously this is just a generalization for the sake of discussion, there are plenty of effusively fruity old world wines and austere new world wines).
The typical corollary is that new world wines have:

• ample fruit
• more flavor
• intensity
  The criticism is that they are simple and sometimes anonymous. They lack acid balance, minerality and complexity. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the grape let alone the place.

But these are mainly just generalizations. I won’t say that they are completely untrue, and if one has a preference for one list over the other I think he or she will tend to be more put off by the corresponding failings.

That said, that is not a great burg upon which to base your findings. This experiment has been repeated here many times, and I don’t know if anyone ever changed their mind outright. That said, there have been some transformations over time.

[Scott_G_r_u_n_e_r]

@Robert Panzer

Burgundy will likely find it hard to compete with the grandeur of fire breathing mythic beasts…or Bedrock Syrah.

[Peter_Hirsch]

@Sean Moore

@Peter Hirsch

I flew into San Francisco once. Looked around and decided to have lunch at a local Olive Garden. It sucked. Then I went to McDonalds for dinner. It sucked.
Why do all restaurants in San Francisco just suck so bad? Why do people say that it’s a good food city? My experience says that it sucks.

The Stonestown Mall Olive Garden? Wow, I’ve always had great meals there, and make it a point to visit every time I’m in the Bay Area. Much better than Vallejo or Palo Alto. Try the Five Cheese Ziti al Forno. It’s somewhat pricey, but that’s because it has five different cheeses.

Holy shit. They make the 5 cheese Ziti with actually 5 real cheeses? I find that hard to believe. I don’t think there are 5 cheeses! I asked Alan and he said there is American and Swiss and Velveeta and Cheeze Wiz in a can, and that’s it! How can you make 5 cheese Ziti with only 4 cheeses???

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Alan Eden

Im sure that really great Burgundy from the well know houses is great but otherwise i just dont get it.

Tonight i had a 2009 Louis Jadot Vosnee Romanee, a $50 bottle. I was not expecting fireworks but what i got was a tired old tasting wine that just had zero excitement. I know i like em young but one of the reasons is that a young wine wakes up your senses, this wine was like a dose of mother in law jokes. It was a tired red brown colour and the taste was equally tired, i could see how some people might say the flavour was resolved as no high points were present but if that is a condition of liking mature burgundy count me out.

As a comparison i also opened a 2014 Chiroubles, no other way to say it but what a crock of shit. This was a $20 bottle but to me tasted like the sort of wine you buy for 2 euro a litre in plastic bottles. It was thin and about as complex as Donald Trump.

Its the same thing i found with Italian wines, im sure there are great Burgundian wines but the affordable versions are to my taste just blown away by US wines. i just like a big flavourful fresh acidic minerally fruit driven wine and with the exception of Bordeaux, Rhone and some trocken Riesling you just dont get these characteristics in european wines

I think your history on this board is largely to blame for many of the responses you’re getting here, Alan. At least, that’s my perspective, as I didn’t find your OP to be offensive at all. We’re all entitled to our opinions, and you weren’t mean/nasty/condescending to anybody, so I don’t see where the problem is in this thread.

With respect to the part of your post I put in bold, above, you should try the following, if you haven’t already:
German Riesling
Chenin Blanc from Vouvray

and, knowing Robert, Chinon was probably a serious rec… But, I’m not convinced you’d like Cabernet Franc from Chinon, so it’s not a recommendation I’d give to you.

[Monte_Mast]

@Robert Panzer

Megadeth and Chamber Music aren’t often on the same menu.

But Metallica has performed with the San Francisco Symphony and Frank Zappa wrote some very high quality symphonic works.

[Michael_Lewis]

@Alan Eden

Im sure that really great Burgundy from the well know houses is great but otherwise i just dont get it.

Tonight i had a 2009 Louis Jadot Vosnee Romanee, a $50 bottle. I was not expecting fireworks but what i got was a tired old tasting wine that just had zero excitement. I know i like em young but one of the reasons is that a young wine wakes up your senses, this wine was like a dose of mother in law jokes. It was a tired red brown colour and the taste was equally tired, i could see how some people might say the flavour was resolved as no high points were present but if that is a condition of liking mature burgundy count me out.

As a comparison i also opened a 2014 Chiroubles, no other way to say it but what a crock of shit. This was a $20 bottle but to me tasted like the sort of wine you buy for 2 euro a litre in plastic bottles. It was thin and about as complex as Donald Trump.

Its the same thing i found with Italian wines, im sure there are great Burgundian wines but the affordable versions are to my taste just blown away by US wines. i just like a big flavourful fresh acidic minerally fruit driven wine and with the exception of Bordeaux, Rhone and some trocken Riesling you just dont get these characteristics in european wines

Alan, we agree on Donald Trump.